In a revealing episode of the Family Twist Podcast, co-host Corey Stulce engages with Pam, a woman whose discovery of being a Not Parent Expected (NPE) unveils a complex weave of family secrets and identities reshaped by DNA testing. This personal exploration into the ramifications of a child result of an affair casts light on the emotional and societal impacts of such a revelation.
Pam’s journey into her past began innocently with a DNA test in 2017
It was motivated by a mix of curiosity and recent familial changes, including the birth of her child and the passing of her mother. The initial fun and curiosity quickly spiraled into a complex investigation as the results unveiled unexpected truths about her family lineage, challenging her identity and familial relations.
The most poignant moment came when DNA results contradicted everything Pam knew about her family: her brother, whom she grew up with, turned out to be her half-sibling. This discovery was the first domino in a series of revelations that would lead her to question the very fabric of her familial relationships and identity.
The episode dives deep into the emotions surrounding children born from affairs, often shrouded in secrecy and stigma. Pam discusses the heavy burden of discovering such secrets about one’s origins, including the challenges of reconciling public personas with private realities. Her narrative is a candid reflection on the journey through denial, acceptance, and ultimately advocacy, as she seeks to support others navigating similar paths by fostering an open dialogue about the complexities of familial bonds and identity in the context of NPE.
Implications of Being a Child Result of an Affair
Pam’s story also touches on the broader implications of such discoveries, such as the need for emotional support and the potential impacts on one’s sense of self and familial relationships. The conversation sheds light on the often-overlooked emotional fallout of uncovering that one is a child result of an affair, which can range from isolation and rejection to a profound reevaluation of familial ties.
Through her advocacy and her own podcast, “NPE Child of an Affair,” Pam aims to provide a platform for those affected by similar stories to share their experiences and find community. Her efforts underscore the importance of addressing the emotional and psychological impacts of such discoveries, which can be as significant as the genetic revelations themselves.
The transformative power of genetic testing in modern society
It’s not just about uncovering ethnic backgrounds or connecting with long-lost relatives; it’s also about confronting uncomfortable truths that may have been buried for generations. These technologies are rewriting family histories, challenging long-held beliefs about identity, and raising important questions about the implications of genetic knowledge.
However, this story is not just about the challenges; it’s also about resilience and transformation. Pam’s experience highlights the potential for personal growth and empowerment that can come from such profound revelations. It is a testament to the strength required to confront and embrace one’s truth, no matter how complex or unexpected.
This episode of Family Twist is a powerful reminder of the hidden complexities within family histories and the profound impact of uncovering them. It calls on listeners to consider the deeper implications of their familial bonds and the often unpredictable nature of genetic heritage. As we continue to navigate the evolving landscape of genetic testing and its impact on our lives, stories like Pam’s are vital for understanding the deeply personal and communal challenges and opportunities these technologies bring.
For those grappling with similar discoveries or interested in the dynamic interplay of genetics, identity, and family, this episode of Family Twist not only offers insight but also a sense of solidarity in the shared human experience of seeking truth and understanding.
Episode Transcript:
Corey & Kendall Stulce (00:00.078)
Thanks for tuning in to the Family Twist Podcast. I’m one of your hosts, Cory. In this episode, Pam shares with Kendall her personal journey as an NPE, not parent expected, and the complexities and emotions that arise from being the result of an affair. In the episode, Pam mentions our friends from Hiroth Hope and Healing, Erin, Cindy, and Anne. Hiroth was founded to help adoptees and NPEs with their trauma, and the group holds three retreats annually.
The Hyrith episodes are number 34 and 35 of Family Twist, in case you want to check them out. Echoing Hyrith’s message, Pam advocates for raising awareness and understanding about the experiences of NPEs, specifically those dealing with the stigma attached to children conceived through affairs. Pam is very active with the NPE communities in Canada, where she lives, and she just launched her own podcast, NPE Child of an Affair. It’s linked in the show notes for this episode. Okay, let’s meet Pam.
A question that I love to start, I think I already know the answer to it, but just because of what you sent previously, but did your advocacy start before or after your personal discovery about your parentage? So it started after, would this be a good time to tell you about my discovery? Yeah, I’d love to hear that. So originally I did my first DNA test in 2017. Had a brand new baby.
late in life miracle baby, one and only. And my mom had just passed away. So it was very like happy time mixed in with tough times. And my brother, my brother that I lived with growing up, he actually did an ancestry test first. He’s very private. He would never do anything like this. So he actually did it first and sent me a text with a screenshot with the very first pie charts. Again, think back, his was 2016.
And I was like, oh, that’s cool. My husband and I were thinking about it. We’re gonna do it. And literally I just ordered the test immediately. Busy with the baby, all of that. I don’t do the test right away. Finally, long story short, I do it. My husband had given me a kiss in the morning. This is the part that I always tell because it’s an awkward story, but it’s funny. My husband is 100% East European and obviously an interesting mix. So when I first got my results back in 2017, it was…
Corey & Kendall Stulce (02:19.566)
50% East European and this big list of countries, including my husband’s country. And I was like, oh man, he wrecked my test. He kissed me that morning. He ruined my test. This is what I thought. This is what I told myself. I’ve been working on my family tree. I don’t know if you remember the old paper versions that like filled a room. Yeah, so I had been working on it.
in some regards since the 90s. So I get this result back. I didn’t call Ancestry, I actually found the email. I went back and dug through it because I’m trying to write my story too. And I’m sure I made them laugh because I blamed it on my husband’s kiss and they wrote back and said, probably not, but if you’d like to do another test. And they actually sent me another test. Really? And then life got busy and 2021.
So this all started in 2017, 2021. And I’d worked on the tree, you know, spotty throughout there. And if you know Ancestor, you can work on your tree and not pay attention to the DNA. And people had written to me, I think were related. Well, and almost everybody that did looked like they were on my mom’s side anyway. So I decided in 2021 to redo the test.
I called Ancestry, they’re like, yeah, we’re not sure if that test will work. I don’t know if old tests work or not. They probably just wanted to sell me another one, but I ordered a new one and I did it. And this time, and they told me what to do. They told me to screenshot everything, how to delete it, but it wouldn’t delete my tree. So please don’t go and do that. Like talk to Ancestry, if anybody has to redo a test, they’ll walk you through it. So I redid it and this time it came back as 50% East European, but this time it said that I was, and again, it’s changed a bit, but basically 50%.
Ukrainian, Polish and Russian. And I was like, what, what do you mean? Like I’ve been working on my family long enough to know that isn’t accurate. So I don’t know what I did with that. Put it aside and life was busy. My daughter broke her elbow right around this time. So she was five. She was a mess. It was awful. And then.
Corey & Kendall Stulce (04:30.09)
Somewhere in the next couple of weeks, I looked at my matches. My brother had been showing as close family before, but this time he showed as close family first cousin. And for those that are NPEs, you know where this is going. So I’m like, well, that’s not right. There’s gotta be other choices, cause I’m smart. I know how to figure these things out. So I click on it and I see all these choices, but I’m like, maybe I’m just tired, but I’m not seeing full brother.
busy, go back to it, I look again, I start doing some research and I’m like 1600 CMs, what does that mean? And I end up on the phone with Ancestry because everything it was telling me online was basically saying we were maybe half siblings or even a first cousin because we actually match pretty low. To give you a bit of background, my brother is 14 months older than me. We look like twins our whole lives, especially when we were children, people thought we were twins because he was short when we were younger and then eventually, you know, he shot up and
I stayed at five four and I was always mad. I didn’t know why. And as my story progresses, I know why I never got past five four. Then I started to think, well, it must be my brother. Now don’t ask me what I did with the 50% East European. I don’t know where I put that. I must’ve thrown it on my bookshelf because I decided it was my brother. And then it was…
My brother’s not close with the family. He doesn’t really care about this stuff. So I started to tell a couple of people, I told my boss, she was like, are you okay? And I’m like, I don’t really wanna talk about this cause I don’t really know. She made me talk to her about it, which was, I’m glad she did. She was like, do what you need to do. If you need time off, like she knows my brother’s on the West coast of Canada. I’m in Canada, by the way. I ended up scheduling a meeting with my brother. I had to reassure him cause we don’t talk very often that everybody was okay. No one was dying. Like I just needed to share screens with him.
the night before or two nights before, it’s a bit blurry. I woke up at five in the morning, I felt like I couldn’t breathe and there was this picture in my face, like in my mind, in my sleep. And it was a photo that many, many years ago when my dad’s sister had died, that her husband had given us a bunch of photos. And there was a picture in there and I never thought my brother looked like my dad. I never thought either one of us really looked that much like him. And it was a photo of my dad at eight years old with his brother and a snowman.
Corey & Kendall Stulce (06:45.386)
And it looked exactly like my brother at that age. And at five o’clock in the morning, that picture appeared in my mind and I felt like I couldn’t breathe. And I was like, it’s not him, it’s me. All this time, all this weird little things like it’s me, I have a different dad. So everyone was sleeping, I finally, you know, time passed and I got everyone out of the house and then I started ripping through those photos and I found it and I’m like, it’s me, it’s not him. And my brother and I got on the call the next morning.
Again, he’s 14 months older. He’s like, I’m surprised, but I’m not shocked. And I’m like, what do you mean? He goes, I swear, and my brother doesn’t lie. He’s not following the family footsteps. He’s like, I have no idea, but he has a photographic memory. He’s not a woo-woo guy, but this was the first time he ever shared anything like that. And he said, you know, I always had this feeling. And he said, I have two memories of the three of us being in a room, cause I have an older sister who’s 11 years older, that either you or her,
were not mom and dads. And I’m like, what? Like, you’ve never told me anything like that. So we talked, we, you know, tried to theorize who it could be. Like, we were just kind of, I don’t know, we had an amazing conversation. Some of it is a blur. But it still hadn’t hit me yet. And then he had to go because we both work, we have government jobs, I was on my lunch hour. He’s on the West Coast. So I was his first meeting of the day. And then we signed off and he had given me his password, which I didn’t realize I had the whole
whole time. He had emailed it to me way back in 2017 when he had said, look at my pie chart. And I signed in and I immediately went to his relatives. And these are the people that I’m researching. I mean, he doesn’t even know who these people are. He said, he’s like, Pam, I haven’t even looked at it since I sent you the pie chart. And there were not many, but his first matches were the closest ones on my birth certificate father’s family that weren’t on mine.
the floor fell out from under me. The room I was in is over our garage and I literally, I used to always worry that that’s like an unsafe room. I felt like it was falling down and I was hysterical and I was crying and I called my husband and it was just all just a big blur. So that’s how that discovery happened. And my older sister, who’s a strange from the family, I was the only one that was still checking in on her. That’s a long story that needs its own podcast. But
Corey & Kendall Stulce (09:10.154)
I didn’t tell her ahead of time. I didn’t, I don’t necessarily trust everything that comes out of my sister. So I threw it on her in the town. She lives in a parking lot. We have a Tim Hortons coffee shop and I just laid it out and she was crying. Unlike my brother, she was shocked. She was very upset. And then I said, you know, he was a baby. He was four months old. It has to be somebody that was close. My mom didn’t drink. She didn’t go out.
She didn’t party, she didn’t drive. There were no babysitters around. They were very kind of on their own. I’m like, it has to be someone. And I was expecting it to be a name I’d heard before. And my sister, all of a sudden she lit up and she’s smiling. She’s like, oh, and I’m gonna call him Jack Brown. She’s like, oh, Jack Brown was around. And then she starts talking about him. And she’s like, you know, my chatty Cathy doll, my sister was born in the 60s, that came from him. And I’m like,
That was her beloved doll. I have photos. So I’m like, there’s photos of this doll. I’m like, so tell me about him. Like, what do you remember? And she says, well, he was a lot older than mom and dad. I’m like, how old? She’s like, I don’t know. Full gray hair. She starts describing him. And then all of a sudden she stops and she said, I caught him and mom kissing once. And I’m like, what? And she’s like, oh my gosh, I haven’t thought of this in years. And she’s like, I was eight years old and because of where they lived and…
you know, they were in an apartment versus where I was conceived, which was in a duplex. She described the whole scenario and I’m like, did you say anything? She said, no, I ran back to my room and I never said anything to mom or dad, I never told anybody, anyone. Like you’re probably the only person I’ve ever told. That’s how it started. And in my story, everyone is deceased. My mom was already passed away, my birth certificate father, and my biological father, we’ll call him Jack Brown, was 60, six zero years old when I was born.
Everyone was married. Everyone stayed married until the men passed away. I had always known that my BCF had been unfaithful to my mother. I was not a fan. We weren’t close. There’s some abuse in the history there. I’d forgiven my dad when he passed away. He had a massive stroke. I said my piece, he was unconscious, but it’s the best way to have your piece, is when there’s no one can fight back with you. And I forgave him.
Corey & Kendall Stulce (11:30.858)
So I grieved both my parents and then this happens. The majority of where I spent my time was in the identity piece and then searching because even though my sister had given me a name, nothing in my DNA was right. Took me 16 months of searching. I had traced some family through trees, but nobody had DNA and 16 months in, I finally found a first cousin once removed. She’s amazing. Her name is Lisa. I’m allowed to use her name. I knew her from high school.
She doesn’t remember me, but I remember her and she did the test. She came back as a first cousin match. She came back as a high match for first cousin once removed. So she was able to provide the proof photographs, a little bit of information because my dad is her great uncle and her dad is my first cousin. Her dad, unfortunately, is starting to lose his memory. And but I did, you know, I.
I drove them crazy, probably in a long car ride to go look at some graves and whatnot. So anyway, I, it took a long time. Those 16 months just sounds like a number on a page, but anybody who’s in the seat, it felt like a thousand years. Yeah. So that’s how it happened. There was a cousin in between who was like a second to third cousin who was a hundred CM match. He was adopted and his birth mother was adopted. So that was, you know, I was chasing that road.
And actually I kind of had my answer earlier, but I wouldn’t, because I couldn’t prove how we were related, but I took his information, the limited info he had on his birth mother, and I went through all my bio dad was Ukrainian. His family had immigrated in the early 1900s and their last name was misspelled on all the birth records and everything. So I took all the misspelled versions of my bio dad’s real last name, which he did not go by.
There’s a whole other story there. And I found his mom. I found his mom’s birth record, which led to them finding what happened to his grandparents and his aunts and uncles. Everyone had died and she never had any other children. One of her sisters survived and never had any children. So I was able to give him, which still like makes me cry. Cause I was like, if I can’t find my own dad, like I’m going to figure this out for him and I did. And then they, they said, welcome to the family.
Corey & Kendall Stulce (13:50.302)
My bio family, I wrote to them four months in when I didn’t have any DNA matches, wrote a long story. I got a nice response initially from my second surviving sister. They are between my half siblings are between ages 74 and 84 years old. Wow. So I really didn’t want to contact them, not just because of the affair. Obviously, that’s a huge part of it. But because they’re so old, right? And from what I, you know, how it looks.
in appearances because you know, you research them, you almost stalk them to find out what you can, right, without interacting. And I didn’t think it was going to be well received. I never, I allowed myself one night to have the fantasy of what it would be like, but I knew in my heart of hearts, this was not going to be received well. So I got a nice letter, you know, and then she said, I’ll speak to my siblings. I’m not confident that we’ll all feel the same way. And I was like, yeah, it’s going to be the brother. I just felt.
It was going to be him because of his presence online. And then two weeks later, they’re like, give us some time. We promise we’ll be fair to you. Try to be fair to everyone. Two weeks later, I got three lines. Always makes me want to cry when I repeat it. but we’re not mad at you for contacting us. We looked at over a hundred photographs. So my sister had described that my bio dad wore aviator style glasses. I don’t know where she got the aviator part, but not sunglasses. Right. And they were gold rimmed.
And he does have an unusual frame. Like I’ve looked at it a million times. They are weird. And so we didn’t see any aviator sunglasses. We don’t believe our dad is your dad. We’re not mad at you for contacting us. Good luck with your search, but please never contact us again. Wow. With deepest compassion and then her name and the name of her charity. And I was like, wow. And that…
And that was, I was devastated, absolutely devastated. So I respected their wishes. I never responded to that. I only responded to the initial letter where they said, give us some time. And I was like, thank you so much for such a beautiful and kind response. I respect the time you need. I know this is very difficult because I apologize like a million times. I wrote the letter with NPE group support and with my therapist. I put everything. I went into, I didn’t mention the kiss. I didn’t go into some of those details. I tried to play it safe, but.
Corey & Kendall Stulce (16:12.49)
I wanted to show them that I had done all this digging, that I was shocked. I gave them so many details, because they don’t live in this community anymore, but it’s a small community, that if they wanted to steal my identity, they probably could have. I gave them so much that if they wanted to check me out, I work for the government as well, it was very easy to check who I am, and that who I am and who I say I am is the same thing. So it was…
It was really hard because I think what maybe, and I don’t wanna throw that word out for anybody who doesn’t wanna feel that, but there’s a lot of feelings of shame. And I didn’t actually go deep into the shame, I think because of my abuse history and I had done a lot of work on that. I didn’t wanna take that on. I was like, I didn’t have an affair. That’s right. I love my mom.
It would not, well, it would have been surprising, but like my brother said, it wouldn’t have been a shock if my dad had turned out to have some children, but they’re never gonna show up on my DNA. So I said to my brother, they’re gonna show up on yours. My brother made me a manager of his DNA counts because of course we went to 23andMe, I tested everywhere. He and I retested, we had my sister test. I think my sister was actually disappointed that she wasn’t Jax, because she really loved him. And she said, the year that you were born, like,
I don’t remember, because we had moved, he’s like, she said, I don’t remember ever seeing him again, but I started sleeping over a lot at my friend’s house down the street. Dad was working nights with him. So that’s a year I was conceived. She’s like, but very well, they probably had more privacy than they ever did because dad and I were gone. Like we weren’t there a lot, but she’s like, I don’t ever remember seeing him again after that. Does she know whether you’re half siblings on that side?
Were they close enough that she knows for a fact that they knew about you as a child? Like that nobody, I don’t think anybody knows. I don’t think anybody knew anything, to be honest. No, I just meant that, like that you were, they would have encountered you at some point, those other, no, because they’re so much older. I have one half brother who oddly enough was my mom’s age. They were both born in 1942.
Corey & Kendall Stulce (18:32.786)
So that’s another confusing part to this is he shares the same and I’ll call it fake name because it’s not my dad’s real name that he used. My biological father named his son the exact same three names as has himself and he was my dad, my mom’s age. So when I was first doing research, not, I wasn’t running around saying, Hey, I think this guy’s my dad. I was like, Hey, I think I’m related to this family. People kept thinking that it was him because the age made sense.
Knowing my mom and knowing the research I’ve done on my grandfather and my bio dad, I think there was a lot of similarities. My grandfather was 57 when my mom was conceived. They both were farming in Saskatchewan. They both had, you know, my grandfather was shipped over by the Bernardo home, which is a whole other story in itself. It’s an agency through England that basically sold children as farm workers to the Canadian government. Anyway.
This is why I got into all of this in the first place not to find out I had another dad right and I think there was just a lot of similarities between those two men and Maybe that was part of the drugs. They both they both actually were in Saskatchewan. They just missed each other My grandfather was there in the late 1890s and my dad was born in 1913 like two hours away from where my grandfather had been an indentured servant for his childhood. Wow Yeah, so there’s so much
But my sister knew who Jack’s son was, that old, the one that was the same age as my mom. He owned a business in town. And my dad used to always get excited when he would see those trucks and he would try to like catch up to them at the light to wave. So when I, you know, obituaries are your friend. And if you don’t know people who are listening, obituaries are where the information is. So if you ever wanna help anybody in the future.
Don’t be shy in your obituaries. Put as much information as possible if you’re hoping to reconnect with other family. Because it said what company he owned and I was like, I was putting it all together and I’m like, if he had lived, unfortunately he died in 1987 when I was in high school, if he had lived, he would have known my parents. Maybe he would have even known about the affair or been suspicious of it. But my other siblings…
Corey & Kendall Stulce (20:48.51)
I don’t know what happened, but she got married and moved off to France, but she came back and she’s married to someone else and has a whole other family. So I’m sure there’s a mystery there, but I’m sure they probably, they’re very much about appearances. So my biological father’s wife, like they were into charity church, they had a presence in the community. My parents were uneducated. My cousin was shocked to even hear that my dad’s were drinking buddies. He was like, my uncle Jack drank?
there was no alcohol ever at a family event. My sister said he would sleep it off at our place before he would drive back to the small town where they lived. My dad would stay out all night and my bio dad had the opportunity to have the affair with my mom. So, and I’ll never know what happened. I’ve had people say, oh, do you think it was assault? Do you think it was this or that? I’m like, my sister saw them kissing and she said, she described it like a movie.
She said, you know, when you see those long romantic kisses on TV, she said, I’d never seen mom and dad kiss like that. And she said, a mom and dad and I would always get so excited when he would come over. So I’m not thinking that anything bad happened. My, my mom could hide things. Yes. But you would have known if she was uncomfortable. So I think it was a long-term affair. I don’t know how, if it ended with
finding out about me, if he knew, if he believed it. Like there’s so many unanswered questions I’ll never ever know. Sue, which is the sister I wrote to, I don’t care if her name’s on here, she was already a few hours away married. The youngest brother who I think is the intervener here, he graduated from university the year I was born. So I assume he was at a town at university. And the one that knew he’s deceased and he never had any children.
So, and his wife has passed away as well. And I’ve never said this publicly, but I, cause I can’t, I don’t want to give away where she would go, but I used to work somewhere. And as soon as I saw her obituary, I’m like, she was one of my customers. And it was in her obituary that she used to come in. So, so she was married to my half brother. I don’t know that I knew her, like it was small talk. I used to work in customer service before my HR days, but yeah.
Corey & Kendall Stulce (23:12.41)
So these people were walking around, but nobody was here having children in my town, but my cousin was here and I thanked him for not having boys because his daughter and I are two weeks apart in age. She went to a different high school. A few of my high school boyfriends were in her crowd. I could have dated my first cousin once removed. I know that’s, yeah, you know, but yeah. And I know I feel for people who’ve been put into that situation. That’s my.
That’s my NPE discovery story. So what happened was I found groups about four months in and it was like, I’ve heard other NPEs say like, drink from the water hose. Like, you know, I just remember showing up, sitting here and just bawling, just crying. Like I had someone to talk to because people didn’t understand. A couple of my friends acted quite, I don’t know, just shockingly. They just, like no one wanted to jump in and find out what was going on. And I didn’t realize, I think, you know, it’s scary.
to think about being in the family shoes. So I found out later that that’s what some of that was, was being worried about being the family that’s contacted. Yeah, yeah. So I joined groups, I listened to all the podcasts, I love them all, I love this, I found it, cause you guys brought in Cindy and Erin and Annie, they’re amazing, they were on the screen, my very first calls, like they were the people that
you know, took me in via zoom, right? They were in New York and I was here in Canada, but I felt like I was there with them. And no offense to anyone who has done a podcast and who has maybe said it or giggled, but the one thing that really just, you know, cause everyone has good intent, I believe, on all these podcasts, but some of the guests would say, well, thank goodness I wasn’t from an affair. And they would kind of laugh it off. And…
Three of our hosts, and I say our hosts, because I feel a sense of community with them, are the product of an affair. And again, people are relieved when they’re not, because when you are, it sucks. It comes with so much, and I felt like that was the conversation that no one was having. And I was like, am I the only one? Like, am I that annoying person who just wants to dig in and I’ve had too much therapy? But in all seriousness, like,
Corey & Kendall Stulce (25:35.854)
contacting biofamily regardless of your situation, all of us, right, as an adoptee, as a donor conceived person. Like I don’t, I’m not claiming to speak for any of them. I’ve been part of the community. I’ve been a moderator in a Canadian NPE group, not parent expected Canada as our public group. And then that’s, that also has the link for the gateway to get into the private group. And the reason we have a Canadian group is because research and privacy laws are very different here in Canada.
getting a therapist, so much is different. So I’m still part of all of the groups that are open to everyone, but we went, I say we, I didn’t create it. Rachel Nichols created the Canadian group and I’ve just helped out where I can. I have a little kid and I’m very busy. And I just, I felt like I loved what I was doing there. I’m doing a book club. We’re just wrapping up, If You Only Knew by Leslie Lillgenberg. She’s an NPE. So I love doing that. I love helping moderate support calls, but.
You know when there’s just something still missing and when people say like when you’re looking for a book and you can’t find it, you need to write it. And I’m like, I’ve started, but it’s heavy. There’s a lot of stuff. I don’t wanna tell my story in a sunshine version all cleaned up with all the hard stuff cut out. Like if I’m gonna do it, I’m gonna do it. And that’s it.
So it’s hard, it’s gonna take me a while. But I’m like, I love the podcast. I’m a podcast addict. Like I’m waiting for your next episode. I just listened to your DNA Angels episode. I don’t know when mine will air, but that’s the episode I just listened to. I loved it. It was a good one. Yeah. They’re amazing. So we have our own search angels on the Canadian side, because again, it’s really, the DNA Angels wanted to help us, and I think they can help some people, but like I had low centimorgan matches.
And as Canadian, like we don’t have been verified. Like there’s so many things you can’t do. So we have that. But I just felt back to the podcast, there was just, no one was having that conversation. So there are similarities through all different discoveries with the family, but being the result of an affair is different. And you can be an adoptee and be the result of an affair. Right. You could be technically donor conceived and it could have been, they didn’t go.
Corey & Kendall Stulce (27:47.47)
medical route, they could have asked someone. There are lots of ways you can end up being a child of an affair who finds out your dad isn’t your dad. Going to the family, telling people there is a stigma. Even like me, I’m not a big owner of it, like, oh, I should wear the shame frame. But a lot of people do it. And it’s like how you feel about fidelity yourself. How has it affected your marriage? Does it affect your marriage?
And these are the conversations I want to have, like what are people not saying, right? What’s the repercussion? So I looked for books, I found a lady who wrote a book and it was about adult children finding out their parents had an affair, but nothing about finding out their children. And what I found when I first Googled, I’m the child of an affair, and I won’t call out the website here, it was awful. They were given all the advice.
in 2023, 2022, I’ve looked, I keep checking them even though I wanna shut their website down. Hide it, don’t tell the bio dad, don’t tell your husband. If you’re the husband, you know, pretend the kid is yours. Don’t let the bio dad see if you’re the bio dad. Don’t do a DNA test unless you’re court ordered. Like all the stuff that put those of us in this space, in this space of not knowing, they’re still preaching. Hide it, bury it.
keep the marriage intact. I need for people to be able to Google this. I want them to find high-rate hope and healing and all the great places, but I also want them to find a place where they can have or listen to a conversation about what this feels like. I’m a life coach, I don’t practice it, I’m an HR person, but I’m not a therapist, but I have a lot of ideas on how to help people. And I think…
having the hard conversations, bringing anybody who will come to the table. I don’t know if I’m gonna get any moms or, you know, any of the people that are involved in the affair, but I would like to because it’s difficult. And I think I didn’t go into this and this is no judgment, but I didn’t go into this expecting to be welcomed with open arms from family. And some people are, some people are like, yeah, my parents had an affair, like that’s, I don’t care. I wanted to get to know you, but there’s a lot who don’t. And…
Corey & Kendall Stulce (30:08.83)
I think there’s just so much hurt, shame, anger, grief on both sides. And I’m not making excuses. I have been nothing but empathetic for my bio family, but I’ve also been very angry and disappointed and shocked and even embarrassed at their response to me, like embarrassed for them. Yep. I’m like, that’s who I come from. Exactly. How are you people not cool? And
We had a family member contact us in 2011, turned out to be my uncle. He had been adopted. My mom had literally just told me about him. And then I got home and got a message on Facebook from my sister saying, there’s some crazy lady saying we have a long lost uncle. And I’m like, it’s true. Mom just told me tonight and give her my phone number. So there’s so much. And we welcomed him. He was 80 years old. We had two years with this awesome man. We put together photo albums for him, but guess what?
he wasn’t from an affair, right? So people could throw that back in my face, but I’m like, we just didn’t even question anything. Like we just, you know, we just took him in and welcomed him. If anything, he was a gift to us. Like I actually, because I always felt weird and different from my family, but not in the ways like I look like everyone. I’m chatty and emotional and none of the rest of them really are. They would never do this stuff, never.
You couldn’t pay them to do this. Wow. We welcomed him and he was a gift. He was educated, chatty, you know, he loved to travel. He was a real geek. Like he was in a room full of books the first time I saw him on camera too. Like that’s what he was like. And I was like, wow, this person’s actually related to me. Like, yeah, this is great. And we only had two years with him, but he was amazing. And…
We didn’t like we didn’t get into all the DNA or anything. Anyway, they’re all good. And you know, everybody matches but We just took him in and loved him and he loved us and it was just so natural And this is not the same. Yep I agree and I it’s sad because we hear from people who were Not only the product of an affair, but also people who were the product of a rape and you know, just
Corey & Kendall Stulce (32:25.27)
the stigma attached with being that child. And, you know, I always say, just like in your and my instances, we were in no control of the circumstances, you know? It’s like, and for us to be in any way mistreated by our biological families is just inexcusable, in my opinion. And I’m getting more and more bold about that because I know it’s shocking. I know it’s disturbing. You know, it’s,
It’s a shock to the family, but it’s like, you can’t erase the fact that I’m here, you know? I resent the attempts to do that. Yeah, cause it’s like, even, so my biological family continues what my niece blocked me after the letter went out. She was one of those people in the early days, I’d written, hey, I might be related to this family from this town, you know, just wondering if you’ve done DNA. Cause again, on Ancestry, you can build a tree, but.
You don’t know if someone matches you or not, if they haven’t done DNA, cause you can just be on there for the tree and it looks like that’s how they are. But who knows? My DNA sat up there for years, right? I have no idea if anybody knew. But the fact is, so I put in my, you know, your little bio on your ancestry. I’ve changed it a few times. I should have probably brought it up and read it to you. But basically I put on there that I’m an NPE. I had a not parent expected.
fine, I had to make it fit because it’s small. Right. And I said, please be kind to those reaching out to you that have had an unexpected discovery. And I put that I’m willing to help all of that stuff. And my original one had said, if you have an NPE in your tree and you discount them, your tree is fake. I took that off, but because I was obviously in an angry moment, but it’s true. Your tree, if you know about family,
and you knowingly do not include them anywhere in any family, like your tree is fake. You are knowing, you might as well stop working on your tree because you know you are presenting a lie, even by omitting the truth. That’s one thing I almost wrote and I didn’t, but I wrote to my bio family this year. That’s my episode. I didn’t even know what I was doing with the mic or anything. I just went to my dad’s grave on his birthday and then I emailed Sue again.
Corey & Kendall Stulce (34:49.106)
and said, guess what? Lisa did this DNA and I told her that it’s confirmed and I don’t need them to do DNA and all this stuff and again, and asked medical information. I explained that I had three mammograms last year and a big scare and at every hit, at every point, they ask, what’s your medical history? And I said, and 50% of that is unknown. And I think of you every single time I think of the three of you because you have that information.
I put a list of questions at the bottom, including just like, what kind of books did your dad like to read? What made him happy? What made him laugh? What frustrated him about the world? Like I thought I’d just go for it, right? Like this is going to be it. They’re probably, I’m not going to bother them again because they’re older. They’ll probably have someone after me if I try again, right? But two years of silence. And I thought like two years, they didn’t ask one question. Like, how are you not even curious?
Right? Like that’s the stuff that just gets me. But again, I will blanket it and say there’s their life experience, their values, their beliefs, their shame, and the affair, the affair, the affair. And I feel for their mom. Like, you know, she passed away as well. Like is no one is there are no parents living. It’s all up to the children and my, the children in my story, we’re all 50 and over up to 84 years old. Is it.
really that hard to just do the kindness of sharing information. Yeah. I was hoping you were going to say that your biological father’s wife was still around because she could maybe answer questions that nobody else did. She was. I had a whole plan of going to her with a research project. I’m sure. That wasn’t presenting itself as…
It was the whole Saskatchewan, New Settler, Ukraine. It would have had nothing to do with ever saying, cause I’m glad if she didn’t know, I’m glad she didn’t ever know. Right. Like it would be horrible to be hurt to that degree. I just want to know about him. Right. And unfortunately it comes with that hurt. I had asked my sister, so did you ever meet Jack’s wife? What was the story there? And she said, Oh, he always said she was sick. And I said, so do you know when she.
Corey & Kendall Stulce (37:10.646)
This was later on, like, my sister and I kept up with it. And we just had breakfast recently. And I said, do you know when she died? Because my dad died in 92. She went and I said, 2011. She lived to be 96. So she was sick, but she outlived him. Yeah. Wow. By almost 20 years. Wow. So I’m like, yeah. So anyway, that was his, that’s what she remembers. That that’s what he said.
So, but he was a car salesman. So I don’t know if his drinking at night was getting business. Yeah. My dad owned three cars from the dealership where he worked. Oh my gosh. Wow. Yeah. So I’m hoping the podcast will allow a space to have the hard conversations. Um, my first guest is an NPE and a therapist. She has quite a lot of trauma in her story. And she did another podcast where she told her full story.
We’re not doing the full, like, what was your NPE discovery? We’ll do a little bit about that, but mostly it’s, you know, how has it affected you, the affair piece, and what went down. And it does make a difference if both sides are married or not. It does, right? It’s a double layer, right? Yeah. Like it really, but it does. When both sides are married, it is very different. And yeah, I just want people to be able to talk about it. And…
Jen spoke about how her mom really loved, like she was like, you were born out of love and all of this. But what she found out about her bio dad was that he was having multiple affairs and she felt like my mom thought it was love, but it wasn’t. And then she had to go into, here’s my conception story. So we have this NPE discovery, but when you find out your conception story or what you have to guess, for me, I have to guess.
right, was that it came out of, and you fill it in. Of course you do. Right, like, have you had Corey Goodrich on your? Yes, we have. Yeah, so I love Corey, I love her book. Corey said, I think it was her therapist, so if I’m misquoting you Corey, forgive me, but she said she was born out of true passion. Right, because her parents had a love affair, and I think there was love letters, I think there was a bit of a, so she was able to get a little bit of that story, whereas Jen, she was like, no, this man.
Corey & Kendall Stulce (39:34.05)
So basically she was saying two broken people who were searching for something. My mom’s so desperate for love, my dad’s so desperate for whatever. And I took it away from that and I went, you know what, the searching part, most of us who ended up in this space, not everybody did a DNA test, but a lot of us were searching. Absolutely. And I think people who have affairs are searching too. So if we have to find a common thread that’s neutral is that we’re all seekers and
to seek out the truth, whether we knew that or not. I just wanted to find out really truly with the pie chart was how Irish I was. And my email to my brother was, I wonder if I’ll be more Irish than you. Yeah. I am holding up a big zero everyone. Oh really? Even after all the updates, I and I have an Irish last name, I am 0% Irish. Wow, wow. Well, isn’t it funny the things that we.
think and then find out. But wow. Yeah. So I’ve had like a whole nother ethnicity and oh, and the war started right in the midst of my discovery in Ukraine. So I was doing all this research about Ukraine about what was happening at the time that my family emigrated. And then people were posting and doing flags and I didn’t even know what to do with it. I don’t even know that I fully processed that so.
The affair piece kind of got mixed in with all of that. And now I’m coming back to that because to me, it connects to all of it. You know, I’ve talked to my husband about things. I’ve talked to my friends about things. And like, even when people are, and I’m aware, some people have told me some things they’ve done. And I’m like, I can’t judge you. Right. I am the result of an affair. I’m here because of that. And I deserve to be here.
I’m glad that I’m here and not everybody feels that way. Everybody goes through whatever emotions, but this will rattle everything in your sense of self. But the affair adds another hard complication. If you’ve come from a religious background, if you are very religious, there’s so much in so many ways that affair piece can hurt you. So I want people to get help and your mental health practitioners might not know what to do. Get involved in the community.
Corey & Kendall Stulce (42:00.306)
right? Come to meetings, read the post, but be careful how much you read, right? You can also go too far down that, but get into the community. We’re going to pause here to conclude this episode. Kendall recorded with Pam for more than 90 minutes, and they really get into some interesting topics about family rejection further into the conversation. That episode will launch later this season. In the meantime, Pam, thank you for your candor and openness. We know it’s not easy discovering that you are in an NPE and
being the result of an affair adds an additional layer of complexity and emotions to your experience. Whenever I get an email notice about new DNA relatives, I do wonder if I’m about to see a half-sibling, knowing that my father was not faithful to my mother for most of their marriage. I still struggle with that, even though he died back in 1992. Kendall and I firmly believe that open and honest conversations about being the product of an affair are necessary to address the unique challenges and emotions that arise.
Finding support within the NPE community and sharing stories can provide hope and healing for individuals navigating their own discoveries. One of the reasons we produce the Family Twist podcast is that we know first-hand, raising awareness about the experiences of NPEs and adoptees is crucial to promote understanding and support. Pam reached out to share… Pam reached out to us to share her story, and we jumped at the chance to have her on. If you have a story to share or know someone who does…
reach out to us at FamilyTwistPodcast at gmail.com. We’re also thrilled that Family Twist is turning two this month, and this season will also include the launch of episode 100. We’re planning something really special for that one. Until then, remember, family secrets are the ultimate plot twist. The Family Twist podcast features original music by Cosmic Afterthoughts, is presented by Sablois Faire Marketing Communications and is produced by How the Cow Ate the Cabbage, LLC.
