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The Psychological Effects of Parental Lies

Updated On: June 18, 2024

Have you ever wondered about the emotional rollercoaster of discovering long-lost family through DNA testing?

The Psychological Effects of Parental Lies

In this episode, Debbie Smith Olson discusses her personal story of discovering her biological father and half-siblings. She shares her experience of being lied to by her biological mother and the challenges of navigating relationships with her newfound family. Debbie also talks about the DNA Surprise Network, a resource she created to support others going through similar experiences. She highlights the importance of mental health support and community for individuals who have experienced DNA surprises. Debbie and Alexis Hourselt, of the podcast DNA Surprises, are organizing a retreat in Phoenix to provide a space for healing and connection.

Listen to this deeply personal and enlightening episode to understand the nuances of DNA discoveries and how they reshape identities and family stories.


Corey & Kendall Stulce (00:00.11)

Welcome, Debbie. Hi, Cory. Thank you. I appreciate you guys having me. Yeah, I'm Kendall. I'm so sorry. I knew that. You know what? I'm reading the screen. Cory and Kendall. Yeah, I know. We always put that up there like that. No worries. Yeah. And Cory was going to join us today, but we had a happy unexpected. His cousin, we're really close with his cousin and his cousin used to live in Boston near us and they moved to Switzerland. He and his girlfriend and.

he just needed to be in Boston this week. So he's like, it's here like physically visiting. So it's great. Yeah, that is fun. Good for him. Yeah. It's so funny how it's like how much we enjoy my family that we found, but then of course, it's so great to have his and not, they are not surprised people in his life. Yeah. People that he's known all of his life. So well,

First of all, thank you for the work that you do through the network. I wanted to talk about that some, as well as your story, your personal story is so interesting and I admire you for not, well, for making the choice to not, I don't even know if burden is the right word, but your biological mother with your discovery. I think that takes a lot of fortitude on your side. Yeah.

And maybe you can speak about that a little bit. Yeah, sure sure. Yeah. Yeah. Well, I know you Found your biological father in 2019. Mm -hmm. Yep, and along with two surprise half siblings. Yes two siblings I didn't know I had yeah, which is amazing and wonderful and I know exactly how that feels so but you know, I I do I'm really sensitive the fact that you were

is lied to, is that the right? That's absolutely correct. Yeah. You know, I never know how that will sound. You know, I know you're not, your goal isn't to dog out your biological family, but do you know why that even happened? Why? I don't know. I don't know. I believe my mom was maybe trying to protect herself and her children from what? I don't know. You know, now that I found my dad and we have a relationship and I'm part of that family, I don't know what that fear was.

Corey & Kendall Stulce (02:28.366)

but I, that would be my assumption is there was just a level of fear that she would lose us or he'd choose him over her. That's the only thing that I can sort of conclusion that I can come to. And your, her other children, do they know about your discovery? Yeah. So I actually have two full siblings. So we have this, this dad is their dad as well. it's been an interesting experience because I've.

sort of jumped in with both feet, didn't really look back, you know, and moved on to having a relationship with him. He lives in Canada. When he remarried, he remarried a woman from Canada. They're still together now. She's the mom of my step siblings, which I hate using that word. They're just my siblings. It never fills step for us. But I guess for the sake of clarification, that is, you know, my half -siblings. So he's still married to her. And so they live in Canada. She's from Canada. They live in Canada.

So I've been fortunate enough to be able to go there and spend time with him, with them, whereas the other two have not. And they don't really seem interested in building the kind of relationship that I have. I know they speak to him and they do have a relationship, but not to the degree that I do. So it's been an interesting dynamic. Wow. Yeah. Wow. So forgive me. So you were, you found these half siblings. How were they raised? I don't under, I guess I'm,

confusing which household they were in. So they were raised with my dad and their mom. They knew that my dad had three other children. We were never a secret. They had in fact, over the years sort of looked for us. My dad, I live in Idaho. My dad knew that we were in Idaho somewhere. He of course knew our first names, but we were step -parents adopted. So our last names had changed and he didn't know our last name. And he only knew the month and year of our birth. He didn't remember our birth dates exactly.

so, you know, you have to remember this was before even cell phones or anything like that. You know, there was no social media, nothing like that. So he would do things like write to the DMV when he thought we were getting our driver's licenses or things like that. And of course, nothing ever happened. Nobody's going to be like, here's a list of the voice you think might be your child or the girls, you know? Yeah. So while he did try to sort of search for us in any way that he could, but you know, just never really had any luck.

Corey & Kendall Stulce (04:52.334)

I just feel like that's, I mean, of course, sad for you, you know, and your siblings. But I mean, how hard for him I speak to my own biological father about that, because, you know, he, well, neither of my parents are really given much of a choice, because they were both so young, they were, you know, 15 and 16 when I was born. So, but my dad always wanted to find me and when I met his ex wife,

mother of two of my half siblings. You know, I remember she hugged me immediately and said, honey, you were the baby that we couldn't find. You know what I mean? Like, she knew about me and she wanted to help raise me and... And it's a really lovely feeling when that happens because when I matched to my sister and we started talking, she immediately knew who I was. And to not have been a secret to them, you know, for them to be like, no, we knew you existed. We tried to find you.

It's really comforting. It's really lovely to know that they cared enough and really did want to be in your life. For sure. And, you know, my dad and not just my dad, but other people in the family say that, you know, my as as silly as it may sound for a 16 year old to say this to his parents, like he wanted my dad wanted to, if not marry my mother, he wanted to at least raise me with her. You know what I mean? He wanted it to be a family unit. And sure.

Now, would that have been the best choice? Maybe not, but at least he wanted it, you know, so yeah, it's a, and then you think about all the years that you didn't have, you know, and you comment, I read the information on your website. Well, actually I shouldn't call it your website. Should I always should call it the DNA DNA surprise network. Yeah. But it was about you. And I just thought it was really.

you know, interesting that you kind of address that issue on there. Yeah, I think that people forget they think that, you found your family and now it's all smooth sailing and everything's happy and well. And while there is an element of that, excuse me, there's still that part of, you know, I wasn't part of this family and I don't know their Christmas traditions and all those things, right? Like you, you just still don't really fit, even though you're accepted and loved and all those things, there's still that dynamic of discomfort and, and trying to find where you do fit in that.

Corey & Kendall Stulce (07:19.662)

space. Right? No, it's totally true. And I have a local brother and a local sister, half siblings, and they don't always see eye to eye. And so I was delusional enough to think that we were all going to be the Brady Bunch, you know what I mean? And that it was everybody's gonna get you know, and it just is, it's real life. And I had built up this delusion about the the way that it would that it would work and

I'm a control freak. So for me, it was like, I know that about myself. And I have kind of a savior complex, like where I'm used to coming into a situation and fixing a problem. And we're all gonna hug it out. And you know what I mean? Like, that's just who I am. And to walk into a situation where that really wasn't ever gonna happen. You know, it's just it was startling. It was like, can't we all get along? Yeah, yeah. And, and,

You know, shame on me for kind of creating this delusion, right? That this is the way that it's going to happen because it's probably just like every other family. Yeah, exactly. Yeah. We're all only human. Exactly. Exactly. And what I've learned from that, I think, is to give people a little bit more grace to not be as critical of the fact that it isn't a perfect scenario. And, you know, we are going to have we are going to have disagreements and we are going to, you know,

be rude to each other occasionally and things like that. But which was weird for me because I, until I was 11 when my adoptive father married my, his second wife, I had been an only child. And so I kind of didn't really have that dynamic in my life. Like there was nobody to argue with. Yeah. Nobody to take your things or any of like that stuff that siblings do to each other. Yeah.

That's right. And then when I got my stepsister who's exactly who she actually passed away in March unexpectedly, but she and I were the same age. There were only six weeks between us in age. So getting a stepsister before seventh grade was startling. I think is a nice, you know, we loved each other and we, but it oil and water. Yeah. Yeah. For sure.

Corey & Kendall Stulce (09:44.814)

Yeah. So talk a little bit about the DNA Surprise Network. I just think it's a you have a cool mission and talk about the kind of the purpose of it. You know, I think I'm much like a lot of other people when we have this life event happen. We don't know where to go. You know, you know that this is sort of messed with your equilibrium, so to speak, and you just fell off and.

you know, alone and all that stuff. I am very lucky cause my husband's also adopted. He has reunited with his birth mom. He reunited with her 20 years ago. So they have had quite, you know, a relationship for a long time. He has three sisters. he's actually kind of working on building a relationship with his dad at this point, but he very much understood where I was coming from, where you're sort of thrown off kilter and you don't really know where to go.

And much like everybody else, you know, you go on social media, you search Google, my dad, I just found my dad, you know, things like that, crazy searches you do, because you don't know what else to say. You know, this is what happened. Yeah. So from there, I had been training as a life coach and I just decided that, you know, our community really does need mental health support and people who they can talk to and all those things. And so it sort of blossomed from there. And I just.

have continued to work on it. It's where my heart is. I love it. I've been involved with Right to Know now with Kara. I've been invited and accepted a position on the board with her. So it's really been moving along nicely. And I just want to be a resource for people to turn to when they have some kind of crazy life altering experience. Good, bad, or otherwise. Exactly. You know, it's funny. I...

overwhelmingly, yes, the difference between my birth father's family always wanting to find me and my birth mother lying about, you know what I mean? Like nobody even knew I existed. There's a big dichotomy there, but overwhelmingly, it's been a positive experience, right? So I wouldn't change it for the world. But it was still, when I came into this situation, again, I came at it from this level of delusion where I'm going to make everything.

Corey & Kendall Stulce (11:56.174)

great and wonderful. And it just took me a while to accept that it wasn't going to go the way that I wanted it to go. And I'm not used to that. I'm just, I'm a, you know, a planner, you know, I mean, Cory and I did pick up sticks and just on a whim move from where we lived in St. Louis to San Francisco. And then when I found this family moved from San Francisco to New England. So I mean, that wasn't

planned, but I'm saying I've had good life plans. You know what I mean? So I just thought, you know, I could control all of those things. And I never knew that I would need things like the resources that you're helping to provide. Yeah. And I think that's one of the things is it does take a minute for the dust to settle because initially you are quite euphoric. You know, I think it took me about a year to say, okay, I don't feel like.

good about life right now. Like things are really challenging me and you know, for me to go to therapy and work with a life coach and all those things that it was a good year before I was sort of out of that euphoria. Everybody says coming out of the fog, it just takes a minute for the dust to settle. Yep. I agree. And I, for me, and I didn't know, I didn't think this would be part of the equation, but for me doing this podcast has been one of the most therapeutic things that I've ever done. I mean, yes, therapy is.

That's completely aside, but I never knew I needed this. I never thought that I needed to talk to people about my story because my adoptive life was good, you know? And it sounds like yours was too, right? With your father. Yeah, I mean, I had a great life growing up. We didn't have a lot, like many people. It's not like I was rolling in the dough with my family and living in nice houses. There were some struggles, but we were certainly cared for and loved and all of those things.

The difficult dynamic would come into place when we would ask about our biological dad and our mom would just... No, we don't do that. We don't talk about him. So, that was always really hard. And when I was... I decided to search for him much later in life. And when I was searching for him, I just had no information and I knew I could get none from her. Which of course led to doing a DNA test. So... Yeah. It is. And to your previous point, I mean...

Corey & Kendall Stulce (14:19.918)

by the time I hit 40 and it was kind of before the DNA stuff was ever even out there, I don't want to say I had given up, but I kind of just had resigned myself like, well, I don't know how else to look for these people, you know? And I say these people because in my mind, I was just thinking there have to be some people out there that I can find, you know what I mean? Like there's...

one person will be great. You know what I mean? And that's exactly how I felt when I took the DNA test because my mom had told me my dad was deceased. And so, there's a website called Find a Grave and I went on Find a Grave and tried to find my dad. And he has a very common name and he's from, you know, Utah. So, wasn't really successful. And so, at that point, that's when I decided to do a DNA test and that was exactly my thought. Well, there'll be one person. There'll be at least one person that I'll match to.

that will have known something about my dad, they can say something nice about him. Cause we really never did hear nice things. You know, so that was my goal. Just one person. Yeah. Yep. And for me, that first match was my half brother in Massachusetts had been looking for me since 1988. It was just that epiphany. It was that, my gosh. And my brother, Chris knew so much more about my birth than I did.

You know what I mean? Like he, cause I remember in the first minute we were on the telephone, he's like, so how's Jackie? And I was like, who's Jackie? He's like, that's your, you really don't know anything, do you? And I was like, no, he's like, that's your birth mother. I was like, you know, I mean, just it was, it was. Yeah. You had a name all of a sudden out of the blue. I can't explain the way that it was, it just gave me chills. Like it was bizarre. I'm like, you know, like that.

that hears this whole side of the family that, you know, knew her and knew her name and her first and last names, but again, very common, you know, name. And I was like, you know, but but my father had didn't know where she ended up. He didn't know, you know, so it took us. And it's funny. I'm I, Corey would say I'm very impatient.

Corey & Kendall Stulce (16:38.094)

And I can be, because I've always made things happen. But I found Chris on August 23rd, and it was on Labor Day. So not what, a week and a half later, when he finally got the clue from our father that helped us find the right woman with that common name. And in five minutes, we had found her on, I found her on Facebook, and I figured it was just the stars aligned, right? And I was like,

It almost felt, I almost had a little guilt because it happened kind of so quickly the way, you know what I mean? Like when I hear all these other people who've just struggled and you know, just. Yeah, that's exactly how I felt. And I think that that's partly why I was like, okay, something's wrong because I'm feeling guilty that I have this success story, if you will. And I, in our community, we do have so many people who are, you know, not accepted or they're.

parent is deceased or there's so many different scenarios. So that's exactly how I felt was very guilty, because I had had this great experience and I'm having a great experience with the whole thing. Yeah. Yeah. I was talking to one of my high school friends who knew that I was adopted. I mean, everybody, my hometown is as big as the room I'm sitting in. You know what I mean? Everybody knew everything. And it was never a secret and I was never embarrassed and there was never stigma associated with being adopted. And

I was telling my friend Melissa right after I found this family, like, I, it feels so weird to be like, to feel like an only child. And then to have six half siblings and then 13 nieces and nephews from zero. You know what I mean? Like it, it, it was, it was bizarre and unreal. So, I'd love to have Melissa on the shows because she has an interesting story too.

they're very surreal moments when these things happen. And I think even as prepared as you think you might be, you just are never prepared. You know, no matter how you, you know, if you spend everyday reading books about, you know, someday I'm going to be reunited with my lost, long lost family. I still don't think that you can just ever really. It's just such a surreal experience. I just don't know. You know? No, it's true. And I'm so fortunate and I don't.

Corey & Kendall Stulce (19:01.966)

take this for granted that the only people that had already passed away were my grandparents on both sides, they were all gone. They're the people I really wanted to speak because like they were the decision makers about why I was given away. So really, they're the only people that could answer those questions. But then my father had a brother who passed away young. But apart from that, like all my siblings are living, you know what I mean? Like I feel so fortunate. I just

hear such stories that like you mentioned where someone will make this discovery and that, you know, the parent just died last month. You know what I mean? Just magic. It's like, and I feel, yeah, so fortunate and thank goodness, Corey, it's funny for in 2017 is when I made my discovery and Corey got me my DNA kit for my birthday and my brother's wife got him his for his birthday.

That's so interesting. Just the same. Yeah. So Chris did his in February. I got mine in July. I got my results in August and Chris teased me and said, what took you so long? You know, it's just, it's, it's, it was just, again, I don't believe in fate and all that stuff, but it was, it is the coincidence. Very serendipitous for sure. The coincidences are like, wow. You know, mine was a year. My mother's family has done their genealogy very well.

And so when I got my results, I saw all of that family that I sort of knew already. That is one thing that my mom did. She sort of took us away from everyone's family because I think she didn't want my dad to know where we were. So we really didn't grow up with any aunts and uncles or anything like that. My stepdad's family lives in the same city that I live in and they were a part of our lives, but growing up, that was the only family that I grew up with. So.

When I got my results, I'd seen my mom's family kind of already knew all those names, knew who those people were. Then I had very distant matches. And so I was very frustrated and I sincerely didn't look at Ancestry again for a year. So my sister had matched to me in January of 2019, but I didn't see it until the end of April. So she's like, my dad kept saying, we just thought you were mad and you didn't want to meet us. And I'm like, no, I literally just didn't look at it. So yeah.

Corey & Kendall Stulce (21:27.214)

it's interesting because now because I've made all these discoveries and I know so many people, I find myself not going on as often as I should, you know, because my dad even jokes that he's like, well, you could have a couple of other I'm like, please don't say that off the cuff like that. Yeah, but because we three boys are very close my so I was born in July of 1970. My

brother Todd by a different girl. They were not none of them were women by a different girl was born in August of 71. And then still a third girl in my brother Chris was born in February of 72. So we are really Yeah, you know, close. But yeah, and he married my stepmother. But so we were like, Dad, how many could work in me out there? You know?

Yet another plot twist. I tell you, I just, we joke, my brother Chris and I say, well, we pop it open every once in a while thinking, who's my closest match? You know? Yeah. Yes. Yeah. Yeah. And ironically, my sister and my dad's half sister are my closest matches now. And I have since learned that my dad's an NPE. He was raised by his grandparents believing they were his parents when it was his oldest brother that was his biological dad.

So yeah. Yeah. Wow. And he didn't learn about, I mean, did he know what ever said anything at all to him? He was, he just always was raised that way. He was of course the youngest of all the siblings and he just figured he was that oopsie kid. Right. And then his biological mother apparently had some children with a few different men. And one of the sisters,

wanted to find all of her siblings. And so I don't know how she found him. I don't know if one of them knew where my dad went or how that all went down, but he ended up finding out that he has like six siblings or maybe there's six of them and he's kind of in the middle of them. So yeah. Wow. Which is, I mean, it's wonderful that your grandparents were able to keep, you know what I mean? Take care of him and keep him. And that's wonderful. At least he still got that.

Corey & Kendall Stulce (23:51.022)

family connection, right? You know, I try not to judge my deceased grandparents for not doing the same for me, you know, like, when I think about all the people that I know who are raising their own grandchildren, you know, I feel like that's just kind of a responsible thing to do. But who am I to say I try not to I try not to get on that soapbox. It's becoming so much more socially acceptable for when when things happen. I think that

I'm hoping the society parents were coming along to like, this happens. You know, what's a good way we can resolve this and, you know, not everybody's being forced to give their child look for adoption or those things. Right. Yeah. I feel like it's all it takes is one, you know what I mean? Like one silly moment, right? Where you do something that you shouldn't have. And then there's a baby involved. And I wish that even back then there couldn't have been a little bit more.

understanding give it you know, like it's interesting because my when I was a child, I would my parents were very open about my it was a private adoption. So they didn't know anything, but they let me talk about it all the time. They let me ask all kinds of questions and let me speculate till my heart was content. And I would say things like, well, what do you think was as if they had any clue, you know, I say, what do you think? And my mom would say things like, well, you're you're

she used to call my birth mommy to you know, your birth mommy might just not have, you know, she might not have been well, or she might not have felt ready to take care of a baby, you know, so they tried to, they, they made it as positive as it could be with the fact that they had no details, you know, and they just removed all that stigma for me, you know, because, you know, when you're my fear for a child, they feel like they're in some way responsible, you know, for

for being given up, you know, and I never, ever felt that, you know. Yeah, that's nice. Yeah, I did have an evil cousin whose name will she will remain nameless on this podcast, but she would she'd be real. She's a little bit older than I was. And she'd say rude things sometimes, you know, like, well, you know, your mom, your parents just didn't want to keep you and I'm like, a shut up. You don't know what you're talking about. And B, how rude, you know? Yeah. Yeah.

Corey & Kendall Stulce (26:14.734)

You don't know any more than I do, you know. But I just, I had that fortitude, you know, I wasn't going to let her talk to me like that. And, you know, I had no shame about being, you know, adopted and I wish that for everybody. And I know it's, it's just not always the case. Right. Yeah. Yeah. And I was, I used to be embarrassed, you know, we weren't allowed, like I said, we weren't allowed to speak about our data or ask questions. And so it was embarrassing to me.

You know, if people, when people would discover that, but the man raising me wasn't my biological dad and they would ask questions, I was always very embarrassed. It was shameful for me. So that was something that was hard for me to sort of get over and work through that, you know, cause you get, you get this idea that, they didn't want me, right? You know, what's wrong with me. And then, you know, once you can kind of get past that, then it's easier. But yeah, there is some shame. And I do think it's, you know, for you, it's a little different because.

you had your mother, right? Like you knew she was your mother. So it's different. For me, I felt like maybe my dad didn't even know about me. You know what I mean? Like I was very realistic about that when I was like five. I would say to my parent, maybe my dad didn't even know I existed. And he did, but I didn't know that. My parents are just the greatest at normalizing things. They're like, doesn't matter, you're our kid, we love you. You know what I mean? Like good.

good luck finding them someday. You know, they were so supportive of that potential surge. And that's what makes me angry at my birth mother, you know, that, that, that I had their blessing that I, they wanted me to find people. And my mother just acts like I'm that dirty little secret that just still can't come out. It's like, whatever that's on you. That's not on me. Absolutely. You know, I'm, I'm a good person. I,

try to do good things and all I wanted was to meet my family. That's it. I don't need anything from you. You know what I mean? Yes. And I do think that's another thing with people in our community that are searching. We don't really want anything. I mean, we're not out there trying to get rich or anything like that. You just really desire that connection. You just want to know where you came from. Yeah. I know my mother's other son is

Corey & Kendall Stulce (28:41.422)

He very physically close to my mother and he's not okay with this whole thing. He wishes I probably never made the connection, whatever. But his wife, I might even edit this out. She called me recently, I hadn't spoken to her in years and she cursed me out on the phone and said I was doing this for money and I'm like, how? I was like, what? A, I'm not even connected to my mother. B,

I'm not doing the podcast to make money. We haven't made a dime. You know, it's like, this is, this is a way that I feel like it's healing for me, but I'm hoping that it helps other people feel comfortable with their stories. That's the point, you know, it's, and I even feel like at some level, I, I can be a really proud person and I feel like six years in the fact that my mother still doesn't want to, I'm kind of like,

then I don't know if I want it. You know what I mean? Like, it's like, it feels, I don't know, condescent, like if she spoke to me now, I'd be like, for why? You know? Right. Yeah. Yeah. What's changed? Yeah. And anyway, sorry about that. I got going off on a date. It's just, yeah, it's hard not to have those feelings about it. You know, it's.

and you know, when you don't have answers, you start to assume some things that maybe aren't even true. You know, like I wish somebody could convince me that my mother isn't a homophobe. but I'm not convinced of that. You know what I mean? So I do, I think that's part of the story. I do. and nobody really tries to correct me that that's that that I shouldn't have that concern. Yep. And it's like,

Well, again, I'm 53. I got my stuff figured out. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Corey and I have been together for 19 years. You should be proud of that. You know what I mean? Yeah. Yeah. Anyone that can stay in a relationship for 19 years, no matter what the dynamic of the relationship is, that's amazing. Exactly. Yeah. I'm proud of us. You know what I mean? And you should be. And I feel like, exactly. And I don't. I.

Corey & Kendall Stulce (31:09.006)

I won't be belittled. You know what I mean? Like I won't let somebody talk down. You know, I was reading an article today where somebody was equating like, well, you know, I love everybody. I, I love the drug addicts and the, what was the phrase? It was, it was another, and the, and the gay people. And I was like, well, thanks for just lumping me right in there with the things that, you know, other people would say are, you know, socially unacceptable, but it's just,

Yeah, and I'm not always okay with that. Like, yeah, that's like, hmm, I don't need your approval. I'll just take your acceptance. Thank you. Yeah. Yeah. But anyway, tell me about I think you've got an upcoming retreat. Yes. So I have partnered with Alexis ourself. She does the DNA surprise podcast. You know her, of course.

And we have a retreat coming up in September. It's going to be in Phoenix. It is September 19th through the 22nd, 23rd, 19th through the 23rd, Thursday to Friday or Sunday. We have six different facilitators that are going to talk. We're going to have someone speak about inner child, inner healing. Someone's going to do some betrayal trauma. Speaking about betrayal traumas, we have some movement and sound. We have.

with like a little bit of yoga, you don't have to, if you don't have to be a yoga person for this experience, it's not like that specifically. We're gonna have breath work, healing your past, present and future. And then I facilitate a session at the end of the retreat called What's Next. I kind of wrap up everything that we've learned and send people off on a positive note. So we had a great retreat last year in Tucson. It was really, really fun. It was...

better than we could have ever expected. We had some really lovely, lovely experiences there. And this year we're doing it in Phoenix at Saguaro Lake Ranch. It's beautiful. There's little cabins that sit at the bottom of this mountain and there's a river that runs through and it's just a beautiful spot. So we're just kind of there in community. The ranch will provide all of the meals. There's different little cabin options you can share. You can have your own, that kind of thing. So.

Corey & Kendall Stulce (33:29.646)

We're very excited about it. It's gonna be really fun. That sounds so great. Yeah, I I mean it sounds like In the setting doesn't always matter, but I think it sounds serene in itself and you know, I can only be helpful Yeah, get people away from their busy lives, right? Yes Yeah, very cool. Thank you for that. I mean, thank you for helping provide that space and

it's just just like you said about the podcast. It really is my pleasure. It is something that brings, I believe, Alexis and I both a lot of joy and a lot of healing on our journey. You know, and it's really fun to connect with people. Of course, we're still friends with many of the women that came. And, you know, it's really it's really fun. And it's not just for women. We would love it if some men came and joined us. It would be fun, you know. So, yeah, very good. Very good. Is there anything that.

And I can put this in later. Is there anything that you wish that we had talked about that I should intersperse? Well, thank Debbie. Thank you so much for coming on. It's been fun and I love your story. I think compared to many, I think you and I have had really good experiences with finding our families. So absolutely. I'm very blessed. I get to go see them. I try to go once a quarter. My dad's in his 80s. So of course, you know, I want to spend as much time with him as I can. So.

I've sort of tried to do a little quarterly trip and it's interesting because my brother, I will stay at my brother's house now. And of course, initially you're very trepidatious and you don't know what to expect, right? And now I'm like, I'm here, is my room ready? You know, we got a joke about it. So I feel really, really lucky to be a part of all of that and just, you know, really blessed the way my journey turned out. Yeah.

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