In a recent episode of the Family Twist podcast, co-host Kendall Austin Stulce delved into a touching and intricate discussion about the complex emotions and situations encountered by individuals who discover they are Non-Parent Expected (NPE) – a term used to describe someone who finds out through DNA testing or revelation that the person they thought was their biological parent is not.
Finding Community in NPE Journey
The episode unfolds as Kendall shares his interaction with Pam, an NPE and a vibrant personality from Canada. Pam’s story is one of discovery and the emotional rollercoaster that often accompanies the revelation of hidden family secrets. She reflects on her attendance at the Untangling Our Roots Summit in Denver, which proved to be a life-altering experience, exposing her to others with similar backgrounds and stories.
Pam and Kendall discuss the complexities of familial relationships when new truths emerge. They explore scenarios where individuals, conceived through affairs or within open relationships, navigate their paths toward understanding and acceptance. Kendall, with his own poignant backstory as a child result of an affair, brings a personal touch to the conversation, highlighting the struggles of embracing one’s origins while dealing with the societal stigma associated with such circumstances.
Bittersweet Reunions
The discussion shifts to an emotional recount of reunions with biological relatives. Pam describes her reunion with her biological father’s ex-wife and her half-siblings as bittersweet. Despite the warm reception, the journey of forming new familial bonds is fraught with challenges, as these relationships are layered with years of separation and hidden truths.
Corey Stulce, adding to the conversation, reflects on his own feelings about family secrets and the right to know one’s origins. He discusses the emotional toll these secrets take on those who are kept in the dark and the liberating yet daunting process of uncovering the truth.
The narrative further explores the broader impact of these discoveries within families, discussing how different family members cope with the emergence of an NPE. From denial and acceptance to rejection and embrace, each family member’s reaction significantly shapes the NPE’s experience of seeking connection and closure.
As the episode concludes, Pam and Kendall underscore the importance of love and acceptance in healing and moving forward. They advocate for open communication and honesty as key to navigating the complex dynamics that arise from NPE discoveries. The hosts encourage listeners to embrace their stories with courage and openness, as understanding one’s past is crucial for personal growth and future relationships.
Episode transcript
Hi and welcome back to the Family Twist Podcast. I’m one of your hosts, Corey Stoltz. This episode continues the conversation Kendall had with Pam, a NPE, not perp expected, individual, and our new Canadian friend. You can hear the beginning of their conversation in episode 94, opening up about being the child result of an affair. I recently met Pam in person while we were both at the Untangling Our Roots Summit in Denver. Pam is a firecracker.
and it was a joy getting to spend a little time with her and share some hugs. I got to tell you, the summit was a life changing experience for me. It was an amazing time and I’ll be sharing more about it in an upcoming episode. I met dozens of wonderful people from the NPE, AdoptE, and Donor Conceived communities and several of them will soon be guests on this podcast. But for now, here’s Payman Kendall. You know, I am really curious whether you’re going to encounter people.
who technically might’ve been the product of an affair, but maybe they were, the parents were in open relationship. You know what I mean? Like I’m imposing, I’m imposing my own, I’m a monogamist, right? So like I would never have an affair. I only want to be with my partner. And thankfully that’s the way he feels about me. But I do have to step back and think, okay, there could be people out there whose parents were,
You know, swingers, I’m just making, you know, from the sixties, there was a little bit more of that than, or – There are, I’m actually friendly with two people in the community in two different groups who, who know that they are the result of that exact situation. There’s still been difficulties, right? But I believe both have been in reunion with their biological fathers who are still alive. But one, I think there’s lots of –
pushback from the family that he lived with, the dad making it not so easy. But one of them like, it’s just like they’ve picked up, you know, he just welcomed her, but he’s divorced. Again, it’s different if people are still in the same marriage. Like even though she’s been happily received, she still had lots of struggles herself. Cause she said, I feel guilty about sharing this in the group. And I’m like,
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you have a great reunion, that’s awesome, but you’re still allowed to feel however you feel about it. It doesn’t mean, oh, everything’s great and we all meet up and lovely, lovely. Like this man’s still a stranger to you. You still, and she has a very deep and traumatic story. Not all of us do, but there are some of us who really came from difficult situations. And for me, I, you know, knowing that my dad was 60 and grown children, I don’t think there ever would have been.
you know, a time where I would have been raised by him or been part of that. Even if my mom had ever told me, I think it would have been still a secret of some sort. But to just know that another family existed that wasn’t as hard as the one that I was in, I don’t know what that would have done for me. Like knowing that there was a maybe a safe space out there. Again, not knowing that I could go there, but yeah, it’s tricky. But yes, there are definitely people who are from
open and known affairs and you watch movies about it. I bet you there’s probably a million movies where that the show I’m watching right now, because you know your phone spies on you. My phone recommended the affair. Oh, surprise, surprise. So I’m watching it in Canada. It’s on Paramount. I don’t know where you would watch it there. And yeah, spoiler alert, but there’s a baby that comes out of someone cheating and
is well received by the wife, but there’s all there’s so much that’s happening, right? It’s a drama, right? But there are lots of affairs and lots of different scenarios. Same with brothers and sisters, brothers and sisters. I watched because it has a lot of every angle of NPE from adoption, DCP affair, like it covered everything, but it’s still your individual experience is what it is. But I just want to talk about those common things and.
Yeah. Did you have another question? I’m sorry. I cut you off with your curiosity. I do want to give a shout out to my biological father’s ex -wife, the mother of two of my half siblings, because they they’ve been divorced for a long time, but she was so excited to meet me. And when she first hugged me, she said, oh, honey, you’re the baby that we knew was out there and we just couldn’t find. And it just I just like I saw I was like, oh, my God.
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You know, it’s like to think that if I had gotten the chance to, you know, see them even periodically, you know what I mean? Like how wonderful it would have been. And she’s a good mom. You know, I, my brother and sister just have great relationship with her and she treats us, Corey and me so well. We go to their, we go to her family’s Christmas party, you know, every year. It’s just, they make you feel like I was, you know, always there.
You know, it’s really, it does, it does, it’s helpful. You know, it’s funny. I never expected to connect with her the way that I have, but it’s been, it’s been amazing. So. So Kendall, what you’re kind of what I was feeling and what you’re saying there, like from, it’s all this love. And I think again, you can, someone can slap me on the hand for speaking for others, but most of us just want to feel love.
everybody. So even the people we’re reaching out to isn’t the best thing in the world to just feel like someone cares about us. And extra love is great. Right? Like I went into this not expecting to be invited to Christmas and that they might be worried I’m out to steal the family farm or whatever else. Like I told them so much about myself and our home and the husband’s business and la la la la la. It’s like, how can
Again, I realize there are people who are unbalanced and unsafe and you have to be careful and I totally respect that. But for the most part, people that are healthy and well, is that, is a little extra love, such a bad thing. And you know, on paper, they looked amazing. I knew they looked a little suspicious. So my biological father was involved in a religious group that’s, there’s not a lot about it.
I’m not going to say the name of it because I don’t want anyone to go after them, but there’s no nice way to say it. It stopped my search for a while. I think it used religion to hide behind racism and it was in the forties and fifties. But my dad is buried with the symbol for that group on his tombstone and it looks pretty new and his wife is buried with the same stone. So my sister Sue, who I wrote to her charity supports that is for African.
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Oh, and I was like, yes, right? Like, you’re getting it right. Okay, again, I’m not saying that just because she’s doing that, that that forgives the sins of the past. But I just thought, you know what, she’s not her dad, right. And I felt like my dad, he had a he used a fake name, he used a fake name on his marriage certificate, even put his parents as deceased when both of them were not. I think my dad was complicated.
my biological father. I feel like he took on his wife’s life and the religion. And I’m not saying that that group is her fault, but it doesn’t align with anything. And I can say it without giving it away. It has a British connection. He’s not British. He is 100 % Russian and Ukrainian. He is not British. And this group believes that the British Anglo -Saxons are the superior race.
So talk about a similar, who was he trying to be? Right. His last, so his engagement announcement was to me, it was fake because it said his mom and dad had different names, you know, Mr. And Mrs. Jack Brown and were deceased. And then the marriage announcement. And imagine this was in his province. He got married in my province. This was in the province that his family lived in where this was posted. This is the fun of newspapers .com. Then it was corrected.
when the wedding happened. So there’s this sense of false and fake and there’s just so many questions I want to ask them. Yeah. Right. So it’s not just that, you know, Oh, please welcome me as a sister. But like, this man is a big mystery. His life had all these layers and I don’t know if they know what I do. Like, I don’t know if they’ve done the amount of research that I have. And Sue also told me that
We’ve hired a researcher to research our family in Ukraine. And I can tell you, like, I don’t know what this person is doing because I’ve found nothing. So they’re seeking their family background, but they still slam the door in my face. I just can’t, I cannot understand that. You know? Yeah. And I believe even the Ukrainian name is not our family name too. Interesting. I did a test.
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to find out how Irish I was and help find out a little bit more about my grandfather who came over. And I did, I’ve actually found some family. I found an amazing cousin who’s 76 in England. We’ve been doing some research. We’re trying to find out what happened to one more of my grandpa’s siblings, because we’ve tracked five of them through her. I didn’t even know about three of them that still existed. And she was an NPE and she shared her story. So she’s been amazing. So that’s, you know, Lisa.
And then obviously my cousin on my mom’s side have helped me, but these groups have helped me so much. All of this stuff, like I just want to give back and, and for my own selfishness, I want to have these conversations and see how people are feeling. Cause it’s yeah, I’m still processing so much. Oh, it’s incredibly therapeutic. And I never thought that that would be an outcome for me. You know, when I, when we went into this, it was because I,
wanted to tell my story, but I also was so interested in other people’s stories. That’s where, that was the impetus for us. And I mean, you probably, if you’ve listened, you can, I cry every episode. Like it’s just, you know what I mean? Like, and that’s who I am, but I never expected to, to feel the, the level of feelings that I felt. It’s been wonderful. You know, I joke sometimes with Corey and he’ll suggest that we go do something.
not long after we’ve recorded one of these episodes and I’m like, I’m just too upset. I’m not upset in a bad way, just I’m so emotional as a result of the stories that it’s like, sometimes it’s, you know, I have to process it a bit before I wanna go out and talk to people in the world. Thank you for sharing that, Kendall, because one of the things I’m struggling with, I haven’t cried today, I’ve worked really hard to not cry today.
because I know how hard it is to edit out crying. I’ve been trying to do that, but then I thought, am I doing, am I doing, I’m gonna cry now. Am I doing a disservice by taking it out? Yep. No, it’s real, right? We have every right to, and you know, you said this previously in this conversation and it’s something that I honestly learned during.
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the beginning of this podcast almost two years ago is that I never used to allow myself the feelings. I felt I’ve always been outwardly stoic, right? So like my public persona, I’m also in HR and what do we do? We nurture people constantly. I’m the guy who…
expects that people are gonna come into my office and have a breakdown and I can hold it together. You know what I mean? I’m, and I’m also a control freak. So there’s that. But I mean, I, you know, I own it and publicly that’s who I am. So I feel really vulnerable, you know, putting myself out there the way that I have, but that’s okay, right? I can have my professional life and then where I, you know.
I’m stoic, but I can also really relate to people and show empathy and that sort of thing. But I can also not cry when they’re crying. You know what I mean? I can hold it together. But man, I get myself all worked up sometimes. And sometimes it’s, we’ve talked about it, it’s anger. I’m so frustrated with the people that keep these lies going. It infuriates me. It’s like,
you’re hiding so much that we need to know and we have the right to know. And I think, you know, I was thinking about you and your mom this morning, cause obviously I’ve been your birth mother, cause I’ve been listening along, Kendall, not pretending to be an expert. Cause there’s obviously things you don’t share, but just because I was thinking about that, that shame piece. And it’s like, you know, if I had to guess, right? Like, because she hasn’t told people, right? It’s like that, whether that’s.
shame in what people are going to think about her, not just the initial because of whatever, I don’t know what year you were born. I was born in the seventies, but the times, you know, my mom was in a shotgun wedding. That’s how my parents got married. My mom was pregnant with my sister. So I can’t imagine this, you know, having getting pregnant from someone else, this older man and all of that stuff. But I think about like your mom, like she’s built a life. She’s done whatever she’s done.
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to push this down and she had feelings, she felt feelings, I’m sure she grieved you, all of that. The fear of feeling it, of possibly other people’s judgments, of having to face you and allow all of your feelings in, for her, it’s for whatever reason, I’m boxing it in as safer to stay in this box.
than it is to go outside. And I’m like, okay, and I’m sure you’ve been told, you know, that’s her trauma. And I’m not discounting that, but it’s like, she keeps making that choice. She keeps making that choice. And that’s what’s hard for us, regardless of your story is that like my bio family, they’re choosing whatever that box is. It’s not the same as a birth mother. It’s definitely not the same. They didn’t give birth to me, but that feels, and I’m just using the word safer or less risky or whatever.
or presents an image, whatever that is, and being a human and connecting with someone. And yeah, I can understand it. I think you get it that I get the empathy, right? I’ve cried for my half siblings. How crappy that I roll in and I call it the evening of their lives that I’ve come in like this. And I said to them, like, I wish in a million, because I had no DNA, I couldn’t even get to Lisa, because there were so many common names in that branch. And the only person I found, I’m going to cry.
I found one of my cousins had died of COVID in the middle of all that. And they were the only family I found. And I was like, I can’t bother them. Their mom just died. So I left them alone. This probably could have been cleared up sooner, but I didn’t want to pressure anyone. I didn’t want to hurt anybody, but I was hurting too. And yeah, I mean, I get why my mom didn’t tell me, but when my uncle showed up, my adopted uncle, who’s a miracle,
I said, mom, she was in the early stages of dementia. She had rocket strength, old, like long -term memory. She couldn’t tell you what she had for lunch. And I was like, are there any other family secrets? Is there anything you haven’t told me? I asked her jokingly. I was mad at her one day and I let it rip. I asked her, you know, in every way. I remember even being in tears and holding her hand. And I was like, mom, is there anything? And I sat down with her and I talked about their marriage.
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we had some hard conversations and the waitress, of course I had to do it in a restaurant, but the waitress kept interrupting, you know, doing her job. Sure. I just wanted to put up, we’re having a family conversation. We do not over serve me anyway. I was like, you know, did you and dad love each other? Like we had that conversation. She’s like, yeah. And your dad told me he would have married me anyway. And she said, but, and I don’t regret having you and your brother.
But if I’m being honest, and she said that in this day and age, I would have left your dad when your sister was two. Wow. And I believe this affair probably started around that time. My sister’s doll was given to her when she was three and a half. There’s photos, not with him in it, but just with her with this doll. She was three, three and a half years old. So I feel like we got close.
but there was something stopping my mom. And maybe she didn’t know for sure, cause I came out, I look like everybody else. So maybe she thought, I got lucky, I don’t know. And I don’t really think I look like my bio dad. I mean, if I showed you a picture, which I’ll send you afterwards if you want. When I show people the three, you know, the three of us people play that guess my daddy game, everyone guesses my bio dad. So, but they, I sent them photos of myself. I sent them photos of my daughter.
because you know, in my snooping, I saw one of my sister’s granddaughters looked a lot like my daughter. So I sent the picture, but further snooping showed that that little girl looks like her daddy. It was not biologically related to this family. It’s just a fluke, but they look enough alike that I showed two people at work and they’re like, Oh, that’s such a cute picture of your daughter. I’m like, it’s not my daughter. Wow. Wow. I’m like, that’s actually my whatever.
I can’t even think of who she is to me now, but anyway, yeah. So yeah, it does hurt. I did try, I pushed my mom, but I think, I was thinking about your mom and my mom, and I’m just like, you know, whatever that is, they just can’t cross over, but it doesn’t hurt any less. No, no. I mean, I’m so thankful for my biological mother’s sister. She’s been, she doesn’t.
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tell me as much as I want, you know, Aunt Binky, if you’re listening, please, please, you know, keep in mind, I will, you know, always take whatever you can give me, but she’s a peacemaker, my auntie is, and she’s, you know, always, you know, tells me nice things about my mother and, you know, I want to hear those things, but I think at the same time, they’re worried that it’s hurtful to me because, you know, she’s this,
great person, but then she won’t meet me, you know, and I’m proud enough and demonstrative enough to be like, you know, damn it, just once, just, you know what I mean? Talk to me once. That’s it. That’s all I need. Just, I just think it’s weird six years and that we’ve never spoken. I just think it’s odd, but to your point, I think you’ve nailed it. Uh, she, that’s her trauma and turmoil and
She just can’t deal with it. My sisters, her daughters, have said she’s not capable of dealing with it right now. So I hope she, you know, I wish she could go to therapy. I wish she could have some conversations that would be useful to her, you know, because it’s not fair to, you know, I’m 53, I was born in 1970, and I just think it’s sad that she hasn’t in some ways moved on. You know, it’s like, even if she never spoke to me, it sounds like she just needs to.
process a lot of stuff that should have been processed a long time ago. And I wish that for her because it must be continually traumatic, you know, just to know you got this kid out there, you know, I just. Yeah. And I just think like of the Jenga game, right? Like people are so afraid when you, if you move one, but I have broke before.
before this, I had a very difficult breakup many, many years ago when I was engaged and cheated on. And I did talk to my mom about it. So maybe that’s why she didn’t tell me. But anyway, is that if you break down, you will come back together again. You’ll be different. But if you break again, obviously she’s got lots of loving people around her to support her.
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She will come back together again. And I think the fear of that is so much, right? Like even some of the people I’ve shared there, oh, I wouldn’t, I wouldn’t contact them. I wouldn’t tell anyone. I wouldn’t even tell my parents. I’m like, you have no idea what you would do, but that fear right there, that fear of dealing with it is worse than burying it. I’m like, and I feel like when people bury stuff, it will make them sick. It’ll show up in some way. It will make you sick in some.
risk regard of your life. That’s just my personal belief. But you know, like we make life and I overanalyze everything to death. So I get it. I’m one of those people, but like we take it all so seriously. And it’s like, I don’t think these situations are presented to us just to bury them. Right. Like I found no point in this in the beginning. I was so frustrated. I’m one of those people. I could find the gold and everything. Right. Like Kendall, you know, I was meant to.
log on that day and hear your podcast and here I am, right? Because that connected it. I’m that person. But I was so mad through parts of this. I was like, why did I find out to just sit here with all these questions? Everyone’s dead. Why in the world would I have to find out now when there’s, my mom could have, I could have, I would have got it out of her. If I had done this test before, it would have been ugly. It would have taken two tries. I say two, cause I’m, I would have been.
heavy the second time. And I would have got out of my mom and it would have been painful, but she would have told me the truth and I still would have loved my mom. And you know, it wouldn’t have broken our relationship. It would have made it hard for a while because we’d been through some big things. And there are some things my mom and I never talked about, but we would have found our way back. And it just, you know, it’s.
It’s the choice that people make, right? It’s just too, it’s too much. It’s too scary. But I wouldn’t have been left. And then I went back to, you know what the point of this is, like for them to find out, for me to reach out to them, do they really think that hiding everything, was that part of their life’s journey? Like if they’re religious, if they’re not, whatever. And I always mentioned this, so far I’ve mentioned this, I think on every podcast that I’ve recorded, which has only been a couple, but.
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the movie Soul on Disney. So I don’t know, I jumped onto that before my NPE discovery. I don’t know if you’ve seen it. I feel like it’s not a kids movie because my daughter’s like, she’s seven and she’s like, what is going on? Like she feels uncomfortable when it’s on. But basically, you know, they take the non religious route. So they have these like weird figures that are, you know, God or whatever they are. But the soul,
They walk around and they see like what their gift is and then they get the special badge and then they jump off into earth and they experience life. And so much about that movie makes me think like, I kept going back to it and I’ll probably watch it again because we’ve had this conversation is that, you know, if this is part of what my soul’s, and again, I don’t practice religion, but if this is what my soul’s journey was supposed to be, that I was supposed to be someone who lived with these people who were poor and everything was a struggle.
to have food. We were almost homeless once. I have a very good life. I have a home and I’m very blessed, but it started off rough. There was abuse in my home and I’ve always had a gift of knowing when I’ve talked to other people that they’ve been abused in the same way, just from instinct. I always felt like that was the gift of the horrible experiences I went through. And then finding out this and contacting these people as much as it pained me to because of the fare, but I’m like,
We’re all human, like people make choices. And I loved how Jen said about hurt people and broken people are searching for something outside of themselves. And then we’re seekers. Now, not everybody, some people got a phone call or found out in a different way. Aunt Sue got drunk and let it out at the dinner table or whatever, right? Like everybody found it in different ways, but we were meant to find out. And the people that we’re connecting with, they were meant to find out too. But the problem is,
there’s free will and choice and how we deal with it. So I feel like by pushing anyone away, again, anyone who’s healthy and not destructive or scary, you have to protect yourself. I just always want to put that in there. You never know. But is that like they’re meant to contact you. You are meant to be somehow, even if it’s small, even if it’s just sharing a story or the truth or medical history, you are meant.
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to know and to connect with these people. It’s part of your soul’s journey. And anybody who refuses that is shutting out a part of their story that they’re meant to live. I don’t know. Have I gone too deep on a Sunday? I have no idea, but that’s how I feel. That’s how I feel when I watch it. And you and I are, I think in the same mindset. I said recently to my sister, Stephanie,
my mother’s daughter, she tells me, you know, that some of the hard things that my mother has lived through, I joke with Stephanie and say, well, tell her, you know, meeting Kendall doesn’t have to be a difficult thing. You know what I mean? Like, you’re so sweet. You’re just going to be like, wow. Well, I mean, I think that the gay thing could be part of it. But even so, like, you know, when I think about,
the things that she’s already lived through, like having a gay kid can’t be, it can’t be one of the worst things that’s happened, you know? But, yeah, it’s in it, you know, deep Southern U .S., you know, I get it. I get, look, I lived it. Jackie, if you’re listening, you know, I’m still open to, you know, connecting at some point in the future. I also don’t use her first name as often.
as I could and I’m kind of, I don’t know, I’m at the point of, I don’t even feel like using the word protect even makes sense anymore. Like I, you know, I’m not trying to disrupt her life, but I also six years in feel like I have a right to say her name, you know, that’s, and that’s on me. I might be, you know, burning a bridge, but at this moment, I don’t know what I’m risking because we also.
We already don’t have a connection. I mean, you know, yeah, because the the issue of safety, again, I’m just using that word as an example. It takes place in her mind. Right? Because there is nothing that’s demonstrating itself to be a physical threat or unsafe. So then like anxiety, right? It’s the fear of the future. It’s the fear of the unknown and not knowing. And I get it. And I love like the right to know group. Like I love.
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that whole theme, right? Like we have the right to know. And it was a different time, right? Whatever happened, however old we are, it was a different time. There were different beliefs, you know, they were different people, right? Like I don’t make the decisions the same way I did as a 20 year old as I would do now. I believe my mom was having probably having the affair between 25 and 30 and my bio dad was in his fifties and then up to 60 when I was born. Like,
not the same person, but I am. I’ve lived through the experiences, but how I filter things and how I process it. It’s like, you know, just being afraid to take that step forward. And I was working on a document, I don’t know, I’m going to have a page for this. And I just thought about writing down like all of the things, like all of the feelings that we have as the NPE, regardless of our conception, you know, label. And then,
their feelings, their meaning. Birth family, whether it’s the parents, obviously that’s maybe very different than siblings. And then what are the feelings we share in common? And like, I have four. And then I wrote down, if we write down all of our wants, what we want, and then we write down all of their reasons why they don’t want to give us that. And then in the middle,
So we have our shared feelings that are the same, even though they might have a different source. So let’s say shame, anger, sad grief. And then in the middle of the, our wants and their resistance is the bare minimum. So that we would write down what’s the bare minimum other than nothing and no contact. Could we live with and commit to, you’re never going to get away from your feelings, but that you could.
If that person said, this is it, and I would walk away, even though I would want more, this is the bare minimum. And then for them, the biological family to look at that list and see what their bare minimum is. See, there needs to be interveners for this. There need to be interveners for everything, right? And I know, right to know, I think has someone who, who does work on behalf, but again, it’s American, so I haven’t been part of that. In that middle bare minimum, that’s what people do, whether that’s through, you know,
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social worker or a therapist that there is a minimum. So everybody sees and feels like because I my heart breaks for people who go into this thinking they’re going to be warmly embraced like it just because it didn’t come to me. I didn’t you know, I allowed myself to think that one day just to have that dream. And then I told my hairdresser who said because it was a dream. It actually was a real dream that started. Then I woke up and I finished it in my head. And she was like, oh, you know, when you dream it, it’s going to be the opposite. I was like,
This is not the day I want you to be my psychic hairdresser. I love her. She’s awesome. She’s listening, but She’s also an NP. Really? Wow. Oh my gosh and really traumatic, but she’s she’s so many years past it she just told me and kept cutting my hair hers was within the family and So yeah, so I’m surrounded by people who know it who get it But anyway, she said to me and this is probably gonna make me cry with her situation. I started crying. I
because it was in the family and it was pretty rough. But she said, you know what? No. She said, my heart breaks for you because my dad got to hold me and my dad got to love me. And I remember that. I can still feel his arms around me. I didn’t know him as my father, but that man got to hold me and love me.
and you’ll never get that chance. And here I am in the chair with hair dye, so I can’t go running out the door. I’m stuck. And I was like, she gets it. She totally, her story was much more traumatic. And she said she felt for me because she saw the gift in her NPE story in pain. And I was just like,
Oh my God, right? Like the world just needs to be full of more people like that who get it. And that’s one of the things that I put in the letter at the end to my half siblings was, you know, if I’ve never seen him walk or talk or laugh, if, if I could ask one more thing is if there’s a video that exists, because that’s huge to an NP, that’s like the gold of when someone has passed away, right? Yeah. You bring up a good point. I’ve never.
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I’ve seen a video of my birth mother. I’ve seen lots of photos and I’d love to see a video. I’m going to ask my sisters for that because, you know, not that I would share it. It’s not like I’m going to post it where I just would love to see it, you know, because I have gotten to meet my biological father and which is just, just, it’s been so special, you know, just a really nice guy. You know, I always.
joke with him and say that my adoptive father and he, you know, would have really liked each other. You know, my, my adopted mother would have liked him too. She would have thought he was a bit silly, but that’s okay. She, cause he’s kind of a goofball and some, but actually both were both, both of my dads were kind of goofy and, um, my mother got a kick out of it. My, uh, my adoptive mother. Uh, but any who, so I have such wonderful.
you know, memories. Corey and I are working on a new episode that’s going to be devoted to my adoptive stepmother. She recently passed away in January. I talk about her a lot on the podcast already, but we want to have a nice, nice episode about Joyce because it’s hard to have a better stepmother. She just, just a wonderful, wonderful human being that we will continue to miss a lot. But.
And he went, well, I’m sorry for your loss. And I think that sounds like a beautiful, a beautiful way to, yeah, we would, to pay respects. Exactly. She, uh, she had to go into hospice right before Thanksgiving. So we, you know, we knew it was coming, but it was, uh, it’s still hard, you know, it doesn’t make it any less hard. It’s grief. No. And she’s been my stepmother since 1982. So it’s, you know what I mean? Like, you know, after my adoptive mother passed away. So it just, you know,
She’ll always be in my heart. I loved her a lot. So, well, thank you so much. I hope you will stay connected with us because I’d love to hear any way that your story progresses. I mean, not only to talk about the success of your podcast and the people whose lives you will touch. That is important, of course, but then your own personal story. I, you know, shame on.
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your half sisters who haven’t, you know, connected with you that maybe they will, or maybe someone in their family will. So I wrote on January, whatever it was second. So there’s been radio silence, which I haven’t updated that on my podcast, but I will. Yeah. I feel like it’s going to be, if anything’s going to happen, it’s going to be the next generation. And they’re my age. They’re our age. I had initially thought about writing to them, but every time I thought about it at night, I can’t sleep. And every time I think about leaving them alone, I feel peaceful.
Yeah. So I’m like, there’s something in that. So I’m like, for now I’m going to leave it alone. But if they’re aware, I don’t know. Yeah. But one of them works in the medical field because they shot down the DNA. I didn’t tell you the whole long letter. I’ll probably read it on my podcast from them. Like she studies T cells and DNA and diabetes, which seems to run in the family, but I can’t figure out which side if it’s, so they know. Right. There’s someone in there’s someone who’s a doctor in the U S who understands DNA and science.
So I just don’t know if they’ve told all the children. Like I know my niece knows cause she blocked me. Right. But she’s young and they’re here in Canada. Yeah. I don’t know. We’ll see. I feel like my story is kind of over from them, but I’ll always have a little hope, right? That someone will, will do the right thing. Like, you know what I would love if I, if, if they’re not going to contact me in life, I, my hope is that, and Sue, if you’re listening, which I know you’re not, but.
is that you leave me a package with my answers and some photos and you ask one of your kids to send it along. Cause right now I just, I death watched them. Like I, I, I Google their obituaries, which is really sad. And I know I’m saying it here in vulnerable space or in a safe space, but I’m being vulnerable is that my, my oldest half sister, she lives in the city where I commute to twice a week for work. I actually,
because I’m geographically challenged. I thought I would never pass her house. I actually have to pass her house twice a week to get to work. Wow. Cause I don’t know my North, South, East, West. So it’s terrible. That’s why I use Google maps. Anyway, I drive past her house. So she’s the oldest. I have seen her once. I brought her flowers one day. I didn’t tell her who I was. I just wanted to see if she was still alive. She still lived in the house and she, and I saw some resemblance, which was really freaky, but she’s,
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the smell of smoke wafted from the house into my face. So it totally made me freeze. Not that I was going to say anything anyway. And then I just said, Oh, these flowers are for you. And I said, you have some packages here. She hadn’t picked up anything out in front of her house. And then she said, Oh, do you mind putting coming in and putting it on my table? And I was like, no, no, I just reached around. I could, she had like a, a little side table. I didn’t want to step in her house. I didn’t, I didn’t want to do anything. I even felt like this is weird, but I’m like, if this is how I’m going to meet and this is it.
At least I just gave her the flowers. It was last May. It was right before Mother’s Day. And I said, have a great day. And she said, thank you. Because I asked her if she was her name. I said her full name and she said yes. And then I handed them to probably just thought I was a flower delivery. And I had someone in the community say, how could you do that? She’s probably wondering who gave her those flowers. I’m like, really? You’re an NPE. I’m an NPE. That 84. Right. The days are numbered. Right. And you’re yelling at me for and I’m like, I never told her.
I had sunglasses on and and I’m like, but anyway, I had that moment. That’s wonderful. I would like to go if she has a funeral I would like to go and sit in the back where I’m just not sure that my hair is really gonna help me blend in But maybe I’ll wear my hair back or a hat. That’s my plan Yeah, but if there’s like six old people at the front and no one else and they’re wondering who the heck I am Then I might head for the hill. So Kendall keep you posted. Yeah. Yeah, I hope they live a long time and it’s not tomorrow, but yeah
just thought it’s a way to hear about them and then look at photos if they do. And isn’t that sad? That’s so sad. That’s my plan is that either Sue leaves me a package when she dies, one of the children do the right thing or I show up and sit in the back row at a funeral. Oh, I hear you. My sister’s Stephanie and I talked about pretty recently, I was like, I love her son and she only has one son and
I say to her, like, if he’s a freshman in college, anyways, in college, I always say like, when he gets married, I want to be there. And my mom should want to be there. She’s his grandmother. So there are moments where I feel like we’re going to be put together, even if we’ve never met. You know, I just, it’s coming. It’s coming because I am.
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I don’t know if I really would have gotten a chance to go, but next month, my baby sister’s daughter is getting married and I wasn’t invited. And I’m sure that’s because my mother will be there. Am I hurt that I’m not invited? Some, but I also get it, you know, and that’s their choice, right? You know, want my niece to know I still love her. I know it’s not her necessarily her decision. She’s trying to appease everyone.
And it’s also already awkward because she’s got another side of the family that she’s got to think about too. That’s potentially, um, problematic. So anyway, it’s, it is what it is, but, um, yeah, well, it’s their loss too. They’re missing out on, they’re missing out on love, but I get, I get why they’re not because of your mom, but it is, it’s a loss for everybody. It is their loss. You’re a warm and kind person, but it’s also a loss of love. Yep.
And that’s what I think anybody listening is that’s what you’re missing out on for the most part is a chance for someone else to bring love to you. Absolutely. Absolutely. And I’m going to figure out which guests said this, but I remember one of our guests saying, who can have too much family? And I loved that question. I was like, you know what? That’s a very good thing to front of mind all the time. Like I can’t, you know, I’m like, why, why would I ever limit myself? You know,
I’m going to make a joke because I know my husband’s family won’t be listening to this. They don’t speak English. My husband’s number six of nine. Sometimes you can have a little too much. Okay. But they all love each other very much. Yes. But there’s their big family. Yeah. But I get what you’re saying too much. And I, and I had said in mine, I don’t know if I published it because I’ve done so many versions is like, how would you want not somebody else who’s curious for you to talk about your family and your family story? Like,
Don’t you think it’s cool that someone else is interested in you in learning about you and your family? I think that’s amazing. I want someone to be in, my daughter is like front row seat to all of this and she’s curious. She’s asked me questions last night. Although if we, I don’t know if we close on this one, you might want to cut this one out, but my daughter said, so what exactly is an affair, mom? This is at bedtime. And you know, it was a time change last night and I was like,
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Well, you know how, cause she knows that’s the name of my podcast. Can’t get away from it. And I said, well, you know how grandma had a special friendship with Jack and I’m here. It’s because that’s what they call that. That they had a friendship that was special that no one else knew about and they were married. So other people, it might’ve hurt their feelings to find out about this and they call that an affair. And she was like, okay.
And then I told her a silly story about whatever, because I have to tell a silly story every night when she was asleep and she hasn’t said a word about it today. So that’s, you know, but again, kind of helping remove some of the stigma, you know, for her. Oh, I made a promise to her. I made a promise to her because when I had to tell her, because she was like right here at the family tree, like I said, it’s going to be confusing. You’re going to have questions. And I said, and you can ask me about this as you get older, any age.
any questions and I said, I will tell you the truth. I will lie to you about Christmas and birthday parties and special things. I said, but when it comes to this important stuff, even when it’s hard, I will tell you the truth, but you have to promise me that you always come and talk to me and ask me the hard questions. Even if you think I’m going to get mad or cry, you have, if I tell you the truth, you have to come to me with the truth and ask that stuff because.
it’s going to be different with you and me. So that’s what I did with her. And I was bawling that was like, I was all I could do to get out of her bed and get into my bed. But yeah, so she did. She was confused. The night I got the results from Lisa, I was crying the happiest tears I’ve ever cried. And she was like, and it was just the two of us here alone. My husband’s like driving home from work. I’m calling him and he’s almost crying and she’s like, what’s wrong? And I’m like, this is good.
Yeah. Yeah. Because she found the picture in my wallet, the first picture I got from his church. Because, you know, I wangled someone from the church to send me a photo before I would have done. We I came from an affair. What how bad is it that I got it? But I wasn’t lying. I said, they said, are you family? And I said, yeah, yeah, I believe to be and I’m putting something together for Sue, which I was. Yeah. Yeah.
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We just might. And they sent me a photo and I sent it to my sister. I’d been sending her all these photos, every picture of an old man I could find in my mom’s old photo. She’d be like, no, or that’s uncle so -and -so. And then when I sent her that one, she said, that’s Jack Brown. Yeah. And I was like, yes, because I didn’t want to lead anybody, right? I didn’t. I wanted to make sure. Well, thanks so much for your time and your mission. And yeah, this has been really good for me to.
to talk through, again, very therapeutic. I’m glad, and I didn’t make you cry, right? Well, a little bit, but a little bit, but that’s okay. All right, well, take care. You too. Thanks again for what you’re doing as well. I appreciate it. No problem. Thanks so much. Okay, bye now. Bye. I really appreciate Pam and Kendall getting into the importance of feeling loved and accepted and the impact of family secrets and shade. The damaging impact of family secrets is an ongoing theme for us at Family Twist.
Family secrets and shame can prevent individuals from acknowledging and accepting their true origins. And discovering that you are the product of an affair just adds another layer of complexity and trauma to the NPE experience. I was taken aback a little bit while at the summit last month. During the opening remarks after breakfast, about 250 of us were gathered in one space, and one of the hosts asked, by show of hands, how many here are the product of an affair? At least 50 hands went up, and I was a little surprised.
But I hope Pam took note as she’s now hosting her own podcast called NPE, Child of an Affair. It’s linked in the show notes. Please remember that honesty and open communication are crucial in navigating the complexities of NPE discoveries. And don’t forget, family secrets are the ultimate plot twist. The Family Twist podcast is presented by Sablois Fair Marketing Communications, produced by How the Cow Ate the Cabbage LLC, and features original music by Cosmic Afterthoughts.
