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Laugh Lines and DNA Ties: Laura High’s Donor-Conceived Story Part 1

Updated On: November 28, 2023

We’re joined by the incredibly talented Laura High, a stand-up comedian with a unique and compelling story. Laura, a donor-conceived individual, brings a blend of humor and advocacy to the often opaque world of fertility. Her insights and experiences are not only eye-opening but delivered with a wit that makes the complexities of donor conception both understandable and engaging. We also discuss one of our recent guests, Dylan Stone-Miller, another advocate for regulation in the fertility industry. Dylan was a donor in college and knows of 97 bio children currently. Hear his story here!

Laugh Lines and DNA Ties: Laura High’s Donor-Conceived Story Part 1

Episode Highlights:

  1. Laura’s discovery of her comedic talent, influenced by Gilda Radner and other comedy legends.
  2. Her journey as a donor-conceived individual, advocating for rights and transparency in the fertility industry.
  3. The humorous yet impactful ways Laura uses her comedic skills in advocacy, including her famous sperm costume.
  4. The significant role of storytelling from various perspectives in donor conception, highlighting the importance of including donors, recipient parents, and donor-conceived individuals.
  5. Laura’s personal experiences with the fertility industry, including the revelation of her genetic background and medical history.
  6. The ethical concerns and loopholes within the fertility industry, and the need for more stringent regulations and transparency.

Guest Bio:

Laura High is a New York actor and comedian. She received her B.A. in Theatre Performance from Nazareth College. Laura has had lead roles on TV shows, and national commercials. Laura performs stand-up comedy at venues like Broadway Comedy Club, Bananas, and headlined Carolines on Broadway. Laura has been featured on the New York Comedy Festival and won the ‘Broadly Funny’ Divison at the 360 Stand Up Festival. Laura is a rising content creator. Laura has gone viral several times on TikTok and her following has grown exponentially in a short amount of time. Laura writes, produces, and edits all of her own work. 

Guest Links:

Website

Instagram

Resource Mentioned:

Laura’s episode is a blend of laughter and learning, providing a unique perspective on donor conception. Her advocacy work, combined with her comedic approach, makes for an enlightening and engaging conversation. If you’ve enjoyed this episode, remember to rate, follow and review Family Twist for more insightful stories like Laura’s.

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Transcript

Laura High

Kendall and Corey:

Kendall and Corey: Well, we're super jazzed because today this is the first time we've had a stand up comedian on the podcast. Laura High, welcome to the show.

Laura High: Hi! Thank you so much for having me.

Kendall and Corey: We're thrilled because comedy is one of my passions and I'm looking at your lovely gallery behind you and I see the Steve Martin in drag and Gilda and it's just,

Laura High: Gilda was my first favorite. So my mom's an event coordinator, and she helped plan the opening for, like, the first Gilda's House in Westchester. And it was, like, this huge event, um, and so I was still at, like, I think I was, like, still, like, eight or nine, so I was still coming with her everywhere. And the Gilda's House had this, like, kind of, like, playroom for kids. And they just had, like, The Best of Gilda Radner playing all the time. So she sat me in there to, like, get my homework done while she did her meeting. And it was, like, two hours later, and I was an eight year old suddenly doing perfect Roseanne Rosanna Dana impressions. And

Laura High: I became obsessed with Gilda Radner. I was like, who the heck? Oh, am I allowed to curse on here?

Kendall and Corey: Oh yeah, sure.

Kendall and Corey: I

Laura High: I was like who the fuck is this person and why has she been kept from me my whole life?

Kendall and Corey: Your long life at that point.

Laura High: Yeah, I just became this weirdo kid obsessed with Gilda Radner. But yeah, my husband and I, we collect, old, like, uh, comedy LPs. So we've got, yeah, we've got like a bunch of the old ones around here. We got, you know, Carlin and everything. Um.

Kendall and Corey: Yeah.

Laura High: But,I had just literally yesterday, had my very first show at Comedy Cellar.

Kendall and Corey: Oh, very cool. Awesome. Congratulations. I mean, that is a big accomplishment, I think.

Kendall and Corey: Yes, absolutely. Yeah.

Laura High: Yeah. Even though like I've headlined, like across the United States, I think like that was the first time where I was like, I feel like a comedian for the very first. Like, this is really it. Like, all right. I officially feel like one.

Kendall and Corey: Kudos. Kudos. Because, I mean, it is a tough, tough gig. I do it from the sidelines. I don't perform, so I just love talking to comedians. My first two books have been about comedy with comedians. And, uh, it's, yeah, it's just, it's a, it's a... tough, tough gig, so kudos to you for doing it.

Laura High: It's a tough gig at times, but when it's good, there's nothing like it.

Kendall and Corey: Yeah.

Laura High: When it's good, it's, it's, great. Like, you just can't beat it.

Kendall and Corey: Ha ha ha. So fun. You mentioned Carlin, I was, actually able to interview him in the back of a

Laura High: Oh,

Kendall and Corey: And, uh, that was like, you know, I can control myself when I'm around famous people, you know? But that was tough because it was just like, Oh my God, that's, that's Carlin, that's the king, that's the king sitting right there, two feet from me. Yeah.

Laura High: I don't want to give away names, but last night, you know, I'm meeting everybody and there were like two A listers that they were just like, Oh, hey, my name is. And I'm just like,

Kendall and Corey: My name is, yeah. As if you needed to be introduced.

Laura High: I was like, trying really hard to keep it cool. Like, hi, my name is Laura. And I'm like, but I also like, I'm like big fan of your work. And trying to like, play it off really cool and like play it. So I wanted you to be like, so. Major influence on the comedy movement. Like, oh my God. Okay, it's everything's fine. We're just going to be cool about it.

Kendall and Corey: Yeah.

Laura High: Let's not let everybody know what a giant dork you are, Laura.

Kendall and Corey: Well, I know you were at a protest recently. Can you talk just a little bit about your approach to going to these type of protests before we even tell people what the protest was about.

Laura High: Sure, I mean, I'm, obviously, you know, I'm very heavily influenced by comedy, and by, like, Carlin, uh, Robin Williams was kind of the first stand up comic who I just was like, oh my, like, he was, uh, Robin Williams Live at the Met was the first special I ever watched, and I love, love The Daily Show, loved Colbert Report, Last Week Tonight, anytime, like, a comedian has ever used their comedy to shed light in dark situations, I've always considered that to just be like pure magic. Um, using comedy to explain hard, complex situations in a way thatlike, it's so much easier to digest. It's so much more consumable, and it also just, it kind of hits you emotionally in different places. And I always found that form of education and advocacy to be just. incredible to me, and it was always very highly influential. And so for me, that's just how I would say I was really, um, it really like sort of like put me on a trajectory, was watching these comedians and so for me that has really heavily influenced a lot of what I do right now and what I do online and what I continue to do, um, especially for the protest that I organized and it was the first protest of its kind. And of course I wanted to, uh, put my own, like, little, I had to sort of do a tongue in cheek comedic nod. Can I say like what the protest was for?

Kendall and Corey: Yeah, sure. Yes, absolutely

Laura High: So this was the very first protest for donor conceived rights. And I showed up with a custom made costume of me in a sperm cup. a And I had sperm fascinator on as well. Uh, and I've been known to like run around in a sperm costume interviewing people. When I was helping the, uh, fertility fraud advocates, like, when they were first, like, presenting the federal fertility fraud legislation, I was there to support, help lobby, and to really try and gain traction for it. I put on my sperm costume in the Raymoor Building, which is, like, where all the congressmen have all their offices and stuff, and so I'm interviewing all of these, like, fertility fraud advocates in the sperm costume, in the Raymoor Building and like I'm of course also filming like b roll, so I'm filming of me doing like parkour in the sperm costume in the Raymoor Building. And like of course like all like the congressman's aides are watching me like what the fuck? And the I would pay, if the security team from the Raymoor Building hears this, I will pay you an ungodly amount of money for that security footage Uh, I want that so much to just see that, um, so that's, yes, so I would say my comedy has definitely influenced my advocacy as a donor conceived person, um, someone conceived with sperm donation, as I try and shed light on the fertility industry and how absolutely unregulated and how unethical it is, I have found that people are more apt to listen to you if you make them laugh.

Kendall and Corey: Sure. Absolutely. And you know, this is an issue that Kendall and I did not know much about before we started doing this podcast and we are hardcore allies now because it's like, you know,

Laura High: you

Kendall and Corey: Oh, absolutely. It's, it's like, it's unbelievable, really. And, you know, we've had some wonderful guests, and, uh, just the stories that they told, um, well, I know that Dylan was at your protest

Laura High: I adore Dylan. What a, what a good guy he is. Oh my gosh. Dylan's the best. I'm so grateful that we have him as an ally and he has become such a staple in the community. I'm just I'm so grateful that we have his voice because the fact that it's not just donor conceived people. We also have donors and recipient parents who are like, so ingrained in the advocacy as well, we need that. Because as much as I firmly believe that this advocacy needs to be donor conceived led, we cannot get the work done without donors and recipient parents. We need their stories, their advocacy, and their support as well, because the fertility industry harms all of us. It harms our three parties. And the way that we collect evidence in order to support the regulations, we need the stories from all of our perspectives. Because what Dylan was told, what his recipient parents were told, what those donor conceived children are going to deal with, all three of their perspectives are so needed to be able to make real advocacy and to really be able to understand what everybody was told, um, in a very, I would say, succinct way instead of this like game of telephone, where it's just like donor can like we're comparing DNA records, trying to go like what happened, who was told what, what were your parents told? What was the, it needs to be everybody. And so the fact that we've got Dylan isfabulous.

Kendall and Corey: Yes. And you mentioned the parents, we had a guest on just a couple of weeks ago and she's definitely an ally, but at the time she was so desperate to, to, you know, have a child that she was like, you know, just everything like glossed over, like didn't ask the questions and stuff because it's like, okay, so I get to have a baby? Great. Right. Let's do it.

Laura High: I really feel for parents like that. I get a lot of parents who I would say are very deep within that, like, kind of infertility trauma or very deep in that desperation. I really feel for them. I really, really do, and I get it, and I understand, and I talk to them a lot because, like, years later, months later, they are in my DMs, and they're going, like, I feel so guilty, what have I done, oh my god, I've hurt my child, what can I do? And I always tell them, I'm like, you know, one. It's gonna be okay. It's going to be okay. You're here now. Shit happens. And I always, always tell them, I'm like, you have to remember that the fertility industry has their script down packed. They, uh, they know exactly what to say, they've been lying for decades. They know exactly how to manipulate your trauma and your desperation. I get it. They failed you by not educating you. And yes, it would have been great if, like, you had received maybe like some emotional support before the process that would have like helped you find that education beforehand, absolutely. But everyone makes mistakes. But what matters to me personally more is what do you do when you're faced with that mistake? That is where your character really shines. And the fact that you're coming to me, the fact that you're asking me for advice and help says everything to me that I need to know that this is like, you are willing to reroute and change and stand up. That to me is like a 10 out of 10 and I will do whatever I can to help those recipient parents out so that they can move forward feeling confident and have the tools that they need to support their donor conceived child and support themselves.

Kendall and Corey: Do you know what your mother was told? You know what stories, lies, education she was or wasn't given?

Laura High: I telling this story so much! Okay. Anyone who's been listening to me for a long time knows this story very well, it's literally like my favorite thing to tell. Um, so I was made, I was made, I was not conceived, I was made like a Toyota, in 1987 in New York City. So my parents were actively going, um, through fertility treatments for three years. And both of my parents had fertility issues. My mom's could be fixed. My dad's couldn't. And it was, there was nothing, there was no resources. There was literally, there was nothing, there was not a single shred. My mom, even when I talked to her, she's like, we didn't even think about like health history, like that just wasn't even something in the 80s we even considered was like genetics. She was like and now she feels like really embarrassed like she but she was like that just was not spoken of at least for I would say the general public but she was just like it just wasn't. And they started seeing this doctor and they were his first patients.

Kendall and Corey: Wow.

Laura High: Just opened up this clinic, so they were also the first patients at this clinic. So I was the very first creation of this clinic of this doctor. And they basically, they started pumping my mom filled with fertility drugs. She had, uh, three surgeries. And finally, she had thefull reconstruction she had that finally did the trick. Um, but they had done lots of sperm donations up until that point, like they had tried many, many, like when I asked her, I was like, how many times did you all try donor conception? And she was like, I don't know, somewhere in the double digits and it just nothing worked. Um, and then they did the reconstruction. Now, at this point, my mom had been on hormone therapy for three years just had reconstruction, I cannot even begin to imagine the pain this woman was in because like a lot of the drugs were so experimental like it was it was rough and I just you know totally understand. One of the things though that the clinic told my parents though um this was not why they picked the clinic or anything this just seemed very normal at the time was my parents were not allowed to pick their donor. That was normal. Like, I don't have a medical history, I don't have a donor profile, I don't have a donor number, no one had that when I was born. Like, no one did. Very, very rare. And so the clinic said that we match the donors up with the dads as best as possible. Again, very standard. Um, between hair color, eye color, ethnicity. But the clinic said that the number one thing that we match before anything else is religion.

Kendall and Corey: Oh. What?

Laura High: I, I know. I know, because, you know, religion really matters to the guys jacking off in cups for cash. Um, and there's such a difference between, you know, that Lutheran and that Protestant or Catholic sperm. Like, really matters.

Kendall and Corey: Exactly. Yeah. Especially that guilty catholic sperm. You know?

Laura High: I mean that Catholic sperm is really good on its knees, but you know

Kendall and Corey: Oh. Wow. I mean, that's, that's the first time we've heard anything like that before. That's, that's wild.

Laura High: The eighties man was a wild time and so that was always what they were told And they were told, like, it's an Ivy League doctor. Everything's fine. It'll match my dad. Now, my dad, Irish, Scottish, and Catholic. Okay. So, that was always, like, Irish, Scottish, Catholic. Got it. Okay, cool. So, my mom is now, right after her reconstruction, and she's about to ovulate on a holiday weekend. Specifically, she's about, and this is important to know, she's about to ovulate on the Jewish New Year. Um, so clinic was closed and he was like, sorry, we'll just wait for the next ovulation. And my mom's, again, in so much pain. She's is there any way we can open the clinic back up? Is there something that we can do? And the doctor, in his infinite wisdom, in all of the ideas he could have come up with, came up with this idea. He said, don't worry about it. I'll get the sperm to be dropped off at a hotel concierge. You go pick it up and inseminate it with your husband.

Kendall and Corey: This is insanity. Yeah. Right.

Laura High: Because It's insa because this was fresh sperm. This wasn't frozen. This was fresh.

Kendall and Corey: I'm like picturing, I don't know if you saw that movie, um, I think it's Forget Paris with Billy Crystal, where he's like running around with, with the sperm trying to get, yeah, oh my gosh,

Laura High: I'll have to check it out. I actually don't know it.

Kendall and Corey: Yeah. Hmm.

Laura High: But my mom went to this hotel building and waited, picked up the sperm, and she's like, it was like this little tube, and she put it like in, in between like her pants and her skin because it has to be kept warm. has to be temperature. So she kept it warm, and then, she tries so hard to make it nice for me, and she's like, and I whisked off to your father's office, and that's where you were made. And I'm like, the fuck's second. The clinic was closed because it was a holiday weekend, but dad couldn't take a f ing day off? Dad couldn't?

Kendall and Corey: Well, it was a Jewish and your father's Catholic.

Laura High: still, come on goddammit, dad! Well, and it was just like, really? We couldn't have waited to get home to do this? No, I had to be like, you know, mom put her legs up on dad's desk. Like, it was just like, I sort of like, imagined my mom's like, you know, legs up, and he's like, you know, alright, honey, like, I have to finish this spreadsheet, just go do your thing.

Kendall and Corey: He didn't have one of those offices where it was like all glass windows or anything, did he? You mean the walls? Right, yeah, the walls. interior walls.

Laura High: I, I, mean, my, my dad was in advertising, so he always talks about, like, you know, he had a bar in his office and everything, so it was like, you know, the amount of sperm that I'm sure was all over that freaking office So, it really wasn't changing that much, it was just a different reciprocal. but yes, that was how I was conceived. So in terms of like going back to your initial question of what was my mom told? So, the big thing was, the sperm donor that was supposed to be used was supposed to match my dad and the clinic saying the most important thing was religion. My dad is Scottish and Irish and Catholic. We took a DNA test when I was twenty... five, twenty six. My donor is 100 percent Ashkenazi Jewish. I am 50 percent Ashkenazi Jewish. My mom, she took a DNA test along with me, does not have, like, even 1 percent of Ashkenazi. So it's all my donor. So that was one. That was completely different ancestry, heritage, than my father. Also they were like, oh no, no, no, perfectly healthy, everything like that, no, I, I absolutely have had medical problems, um, the donor conceived siblings I have found so far have had medical problems as well, it all seems to be on the donor's side, so there's just been lies after lies after lies being told. And, um, I even called the doctor when I was 19 because I just was curious and I wanted to understand what my medical history was and I wanted to see if there was a chance he would give me his number. And I called him and I was like, you know, can you give me any kind of information? And he was like, well, your donor came from a bank that was filled with like residents and doctors that has now since burnt to the ground. So even if I could give you the name, which I couldn't, it's all ashes anyway, but I can guarantee you perfectly healthy, nothing to worry about.

Kendall and Corey: Wow, What's up with these places burning to the ground? It seems like that's a pretty common thing we're hearing about.

Laura High: Yes, no, actually its very common with both donor conceived people and adoptees like adoption agencies and banks and clinics just apparently burn to the ground. Like there is an arsonist going around taking down all of our medical history. I don't know what vendetta this guy has, but, ooh, he needs to be stopped. But yeah, no, you ask ten donor conceived people what happened to your paperwork, five of them are gonna tell you gone in a fire or a flood. Flood's another big one we get. I forget who I talked to, but there was a donor conceived person, I think like they were in like Michigan or something, and they were like, yeah, apparently it was taken out in a flood. And I'm like, By where?

Kendall and Corey: yeah

Laura High: What? And she was like, yeah, apparently it was a flood. I'm like, how? You need to explain what flood this is. The great Michigan flood? I

Kendall and Corey: Yes,

Laura High: understand.

Kendall and Corey: Missed the history books. I'm thinking locusts are going to be number three. Oh,

Laura High: We haven't heard locust yet, but I would not be surprised if locust is now going to be one that we get. Um, I think there's been, like, fires in Australia as well. Um, like bushfires and stuff has been, has it out. A big one for our community was Katrina. When Katrina hit, that apparently took out all medical records for like, you know, clinics that were located in California, apparently kept all of their records in New Orleans, so they used Katrina, the major natural disaster that caused so much death and destroyed homes, the fertility industry was like, HAHA, an opportunity!

Kendall and Corey: Wow. Yikes. It's it's atrocious. So, have you gotten any inklings or any other clues as to who the donor is like, de hap has he popped

Laura High: Oh, I totally know w

Kendall and Corey: up on dNA or

Laura High: who he is.

Kendall and Corey: Oh. Okay.

Laura High: I was connected to his first cousin on Ancestry. So, and between her and I, we figured out who it is. And so, I know him. I've seen his photos, I totally Facebook stalked him, um, And yeah, no, he and he were completely has refused contact. I've sent him a letter and an email. Nothing. One of my donor conceived siblings has also emailed him nothing. Um, I also recently got connected to his brother, sent his brother an email, nothing. His brother was on a different DNA site, so I sent him a letter, uh, an email through there and just nothing.

Kendall and Corey: Wow. Wow. Hmm. What do you know about him?

Laura High: So I do know who the dude is. My donor is a, uh, OBGYN Rabbi moyle.

Kendall and Corey: Wow. All right. Ha Ha Ha. There you go.

Laura High: Yeah. So definitely does not exactly. I mean, you know, both my dad and my donor have brown hair. Like, that's about it, that's the commonality. They got brown hair.

Kendall and Corey: How many siblings have you connected with?

Laura High: My donor has two raised children, and then so far, I'm one of five donor conceived siblings. But we know that there's no way there's just five of us. He donated for at least six years. I, we know at least a minimum. We know he started in 1982. I'm so far the youngest. We have no idea when he stopped. And he was a medical student and then an OBGYN, so we know there's not just six of us. So we're just kind of waiting. Uh, but it's very common. I've not spoken to all of my siblings because some of them just don't want contact, which I totally understand. But what's happened is, it's very common for people who were born in my generation and older, to have never been told that they were donor conceived. Like, so far out of my pod, I'm the only one who was told. And that creates a lot of problems, because you have a lot of people just taking 23andMe, Ancestry for fun, and then find out, Oopsie, I'm donor conceived. And it's very traumatic, and they're just like, I don't know what to fucking do. And it can be overwhelming, and a lot of people tend to just go like, I don't want to touch this. Um, just, it's, so, I'm giving those siblings of mine time, um, but also, the bulk of my siblings may have, most likely, have no idea they're donor conceived, and may never know, and so for them, they're like, why would I take a DNA test?

Kendall and Corey: Right, exactly. Yeah. I mean, you know, not everybody's doing it, but more and more people are doing it every day, so Yeah. I mean, those numbers are definitely going to grow. How did your parents tell you?

Laura High: So, I was 14 and, um, my parents for the age bracket that I'm in, they were very, very progressive. So my parents knew they were always going to tell me, which is so rare for my age. And it's like such a gift. They, when I was born, um, and they, you know, we started seeing my pediatrician, my pediatrician was like, I swear, fabulous. And she was like, um, you know, it was always a conversation between my parents and her. And my pediatrician, in the 80s, this was her instinct. And I'm like, I adore her. She looked at my dad and was like, You guys are gonna tell her that she's donor conceived, and looked at my dad and was like, and you're gonna be the one to tell her. Because when you guys tell her this, she's gonna be insecure that you don't love her. She's gonna be insecure. You have to be the one to tell her, because that's gonna make it okay. Which I'm like, how, girl, how did you that out of nowhere? Like, there's no research. How the heck did you just, pull that out of the air and go, like, this is the right thing to do? Like, way to go. Her, Dr. Mary. Her name is Dr. Mary. If she is still in practice, like, oh my god, best, best pediatrician I could have asked for. And, like, such an advocate for me. Um. So, it was my dad who told me, I was 14 years old, and we were driving home, and, and telling me in the car is such a dad thing to do, and because, like, you don't have to look at your kid, like, we can, like, you it, it's, it's emotional connection to an extent, and so he's just looking forward, he can control how long, how short the conversation is, if he wants to take the long way or the short way, or if he wants to speed really fast, and he just kind of, like, looks forward, and he was like, Laura, do you know how babies are made? And I'm like, Dad, I'm, I'm already, my comic brain is starting to like, click in at that point, and I just, I'm like, yeah, Dad, I'm 14, I've seen Skinamax.

Kendall and Corey: yeah.

Laura High: And then of course he like popped right back and he was like, okay, well, wasn't how you were made. And then kind of went into how, you know, he was like, do you know what sperm donation is? And I'm like, yeah. And he was like, okay, well, cause at that point I knew my parents had issues conceiving. And he was like, so, you know, your mom and I had issues conceiving. And I was like, yeah. And he's like, so this is why, so we used a sperm donor. Are you understanding what I'm saying? I'm like, yeah. Okay. And it was this moment of, it, the best way it was like, I can always explain it, was it felt like I could see the matrix. Everything made sense. I was like, it gave me way too much confidence because of how validating it is, because I was just like, I fucking knew something was up! I was like, I was I was adopted? Was I switched at birth? Like, why does everything, why does something, like, I could smell something was weird, but I look just like my mother. I look just like her. So I was like, I had no idea. And this just, I, I, it just was this like boom moment where I, yeah, it was like kind of like that Alfred Hitchcock Jaws moment where you zoom in and you roll the camera back at the same time. It was like one of those I just like, ha. So yeah, it 14 and, um, and then I just, I sat with it for a very long time. I really just was like, all right, that's cool. It just kind of sat there for a very long time.

Kendall and Corey: Wow. Did your father have any of those feelings about that he worried that you wouldn't feel connected to him or something like, you know, we hear these stories of people whose parents feel that way.

Laura High: I'm gonna say he would say no. He would say no, but I think if, you know, maybe if I get a few drinks in him, then maybe he'd be like, Yeah, I was really scared she wasn't gonna love me anymore. She was gonna look at me really different. I was gonna, yeah. I'm sure he would say that, uh, but you, I, I'd need to get him a lot of gin, lot of first before, uh, before he would admit that.

Kendall and Corey: So, Laura, for people who are listening that might have family secrets out there that they haven't shared with their children, what did that revelation do to your relationship with your father?

Laura High: Um, honestly, it changed nothing. We just went back to playing basketball.

Kendall and Corey: Good, I was hoping that was going to be your answer.

Laura High: We just went to basketball. We just went back to singing musicals the car together. That's literally, it was just like, okay. Like, nothing changed between my father and I. And I say this as somebody who's like, my dad and I have had rough moments in our relationship. Never, ever once, in any of those moments between my father and I, have I ever, ever once been like, You're not my real dad. Never have ever said that, never thought that, never felt that. Like, no, that man's my father. That man, it Is even, even if I ever had a relationship with the donor as well, my dad is my dad. That could never for me ever be undone. And especially as an adult looking back and realizing probably how scared my dad was in that car and knowing how much bravery took for him to tell me that. Cause I'm sure he was scared, had no idea how I was gonna react. I appreciate his honesty. And I appreciate the courage it took for him to tell me, especially in that day and age when there was no support for him or my mom. I really appreciate that. And I will say, and everybody always asks me what do my parents think of my advocacy? They're my two number one fans. They're so proud of everything i'm doing. My dad especially with like all the political because my dad's a political junkie and it's like all the political stuff I'm doing he thinks is so cool. He's just like who have you talked to who are you? What are you doing? And I've had like some interviews with politicians and he was like doing research on them and he was like Laura I have some questions for you that you can ask them. Okay, like this is what you got to do. He's seems so sweet and supportive. What I would say to those parents is, I think actually with Kerry Washington came out recently, you know, cause she came out recently as a sperm donor, and I think she said it the best, the secret's going to affect the relationship. And as much as we want to pretend it didn't happen and bury it, you can't unring the bell. You can't unring donor conception. You can't pretend it didn't happen. It did. It literally created your child. It created their body. And there's a couple of things with it, is when you bury it up as a secret, one, there's going to be shame. Instantly. Whether you are aware of it or not. And that child is going to carry around that shame. And this all could be very subconscious, but the fact that you are not, like, openly telling your child, like, Yes, this is how we created you. This is the magic in which we became a family. That infertility shame, that fear that you have, you're going to pass that on to your kid. And I know that many parents are going to be like, No, I won't, no, no, no, they have no idea, and I'm like, Yes, they do. It will get passed on. And, and it's not to like, you know, shame you, or tell you, fuck you, it's just, there's so much going on, that you may not even realize, and it's so common for donor conceived people. To have always said, I always knew something was up. I just had no idea. And Kerry Washington even said it herself. And she said, once the secret was revealed, she was like, we as a family... experienced healing for the first time. And that secret was now gone. It no longer was weighing down on everybody. And she also talked about how, like, she got to show her dad, saying like, because you kept this secret from me, you made my love essentially, I'm probably misquoting her a little bit, but she was like, you made it to be like, it was conditional love. Now that this secret is revealed, watch me unconditionally love you.

Kendall and Corey: Right. Yes.

Laura High: And, that's what I would tell to the parents who have those family secrets is, let the healing happen. It will.

Kendall and Corey: Yes. And I think it's important for parents to hear that if there's never a secret, such as in Kendall's case, Kendall was adopted, always knew he was adopted, those are his parents. Even though they've been gone, for decades, we talk about them on an almost daily basis. Those are his parents and you know, I've gotten to know him just through the stories now we've connected with his birth father and that's his birth father and great, but Betty and Ruble are his parents and

Laura High: Those are the cutest names, Betty and Rubel. Oh gosh, I want to have, like, children's books of, like, the adventures of Betty and Rubel.

Kendall and Corey: Forthcoming. Yep. We'll co write them.

Laura High: I think you should. Those are the cutest names I've ever heard.

Kendall and Corey: Yeah, I can never talk about them without being emotional and especially in context with this, you know, I feel so fortunate that I was, you know, I, I didn't experience those lies, that secrecy, the potential stigma that's, you know, was especially back then, you know, I was born in 1970. And I'm from this tiny town where it kind of surprises me that people were as accepting as they were. And I think it was, to your previous point, because my parents had this known history of infertility and I shouldn't say that, my mother had three miscarriages, but I think the fact that she was never going to be able to probably have a baby, it was just kind of common knowledge and their friends were so supportive and they had friends who had adopted children and just, you know, wonderful stories where I got to be surrounded by kids that were also adopted. And, you know, so it just didn't have the same level of stigma that I know people that you're were your parents age were definitely dealing with.

Laura High: The stigma of infertility that affects I think a lot of adoptees and donor conceived people was parents age were definitely dealing with, I do firmly believe is one of the reasons that the, certainly the fertility industry has gotten away with so much unethical activity, because of the stigma, no one talks about it. No one talks about the struggles, the emotional struggles, or just the day to day, uh, oh my God, my dad texted me, just as we're on this podcast. Oh my God. very sweet. Oh, he's asking me how my shows were at The Cellar last night. I'll tell him later, but he's very sweet. He wanted, again, he wanted to come be there for my first shows, but it was, it was all sold out immediately.

Laura High: yeah.

Laura High: but I do think that the fertility industry has gotten away with so much stuff because no one talks to each other. No one talks about, well, what did the doctors tell you? What have you been going through? What are they saying to you? And then once the child is born, like, are you experiencing this? What is happening? Is your kid getting sick or, stuff like that. And I think that the biggest and easiest thing that we can do, that everybody can do right now to fight the fertility industry and to help get regulations passed is we need to let go of the stigma. There is nothing to be ashamed of that you've been going through fertility issues or that you need help with family building. There's nothing to be ashamed of. So many people need help for family building and so many people struggle with fertility issues. It's unbelievably common. Nothing to be ashamed of. I'm having fertility issues right I'm, I'm almost through mine. Um, But, uh, and my fertility issues actually are because of my donor, so, you know, full circle for me.

Kendall and Corey: It is ironic.

Laura High: I'm almost through it. I know. I've been on medication now for a couple of years and I'm almost through it because I had a, um, what we, we basically discovered, and I'm very lucky I discovered it very early on, but I have a benign tumor on my pituitary gland, which is located right at the base of my brain, and the pituitary gland controls your thyroid and your adrenals. We caught it before I needed surgery, so I only needed medication to shrink it, and now the tumor is gone, and we're just regulating my hormones now, but essentially the tumor in place rendered me completely infertile. Now, the tumor is not genetic, but the hormonal imbalance that I had been experiencing since I was 13 absolutely seems to run on his side, because I've talked to other siblings who had very similar problems as well. Um, so, Thanks, Papa, for that one.

Kendall and Corey: Right. Yeah. Thanks, doctor. Yeah, exactly. There's just, again, just how significant these things are that, you know, children should know.

Kendall and Corey: Yeah.

Kendall and Corey: just should.

Laura High: And I'm really lucky, but part of the reason that I was able to find it in time is because I knew I'm donor conceived. And it's always the first thing I tell my doctors cause always when you go to the doctor, they're like, do you have a family history of this, of this? And I always tell them, I literally was at the OBGYN a couple of weeks ago and they were asking me about my history. I'm like, I'm a sperm donor baby. I don't have half of my medical history. I literally have zero. So on my mom's side, no signs of this, but I got no idea what's on the dad's. And they were just like, okay, great. And that's always been in the conversation. So when we were trying to figure out what was going on with my body years ago, because I could tell something was wrong, they ran extra tests and I'm so grateful my primary care physician was like, I'm going to send you to the endocrinologist. Cause they just kind of trusted me, and they were like, you know what? She doesn't know half her medical history. And the endocrinologist in a few tests was like, Oh, there it is there. Yep.

Kendall and Corey: Wow.

Laura High: Your prolactin is skyrocketing. There it is. And then got me the MRI and got me on medication time. And I'm very, very lucky. I'm very lucky that I could tell people I'm donor conceived and just so many people my age don't have that luck,

Kendall and Corey: Mm hmm.

Laura High: where they don't even know, they don't even know to tell their doctor that their donor conceived and they're giving their doctors a false medical history, which gets them sick, which gets donor conceived people killed, it gets their children in trouble as well. Yeah, even though I don't have half my medical history, just the fact that I can say I'm donor conceived

Kendall and Corey: Mm hmm.

Laura High: alone helps me out a lot.

Kendall and Corey: Mm hmm. Right, yeah, because they're not going to necessarily start, you know, pumping you full of stuff that's going to kill you.

Laura High: Exactly, and they know to run extra tests. And they know to go like, okay, we don't know, let's give her all this extra shit just in case, just to be safe. And that has helped me out tremendously.

Kendall and Corey: Through the work that you do, have you had interactions with professionals in the fertility industry?

Laura High: Yeah, they love Um, we have a great time. Well, so it's really interesting. I would say I have two different reactions. Either there are industry professionals who have been like the most supportive people and they're like, yes. Yes! Thank you! And they're wonderful and they're so supportive and they're like, I love what you're doing, keep fucking doing it. Because them as physicians, as people who took an oath to do no harm, are sick and tired of how... their industry treats people and like they have seen it and they have felt so alone trying to battle this industry and trying taking care of their patients, so they are sick of this as well, but they're unfortunately very few and far between within this industry. So that is an interaction that I've had with a bunch of people within the industry and that's always really, really lovely. And then there's also some industry people who are like, I don't really know about this, can you tell me more? And then like, you know, when I start talking to them about laws and regulations, they're going, holy shit. I had no idea. They're like, cause we don't run our clinic that way. They're like, I had no idea it was this bad other places. I had no idea these stories existed. Holy crap. And so that has happened, which has been great, but then I have other industry professionals who, um, are less receptive, maybe a little less gracious. I was told by an industry professional who was at, because we were protesting the ASRM convention, ASRM is the American Society of Reproductive Medicine. They basically create the guidelines for the clinics and cryobanks to follow in the United States. Now understand I said guidelines, not regulations. None of the clinics and cryobanks have to follow the guidelines. And ASRM should be, in a perfect world, our biggest advocate. It should be the people, this should be the group, standing up for donor conceived rights. Um, and they have not. They actively are very, like, they care about the clinics and cryobanks, they do not give a shit about donor conceived rights, and they've made that very, very clear. They care about the bank accounts, and that's about it. And we've seen that from how we've been treated. When the Colorado legislation first was proposed, and the Colorado legislation was the very first sibling cap proposed in the United States so now Colorado has a 25 family limit. It's still way too high, but it's still something, and ASRM, when the legislation was first proposed, it publicly was like, we, we don't support it. So in my opinion, if you have no problem putting down stuff, you also have the ability to publicly support, and the fact that they just actively are not our biggest advocate and they are not actively trying to help us, um, is very unfortunate. So we protested them to remind them that we are people, not products. You know, another year in a row, no donor conceived person spoke at a single panel

Kendall and Corey: Right.

Laura High: Now some of the panels were about like IVF and that has nothing to do with donor conception. I'm like, okay, maybe not a donor conceived person on any of the panels, but any of the panels that are about donor conception should have a donor conceived person on that panel. That is the ethical thing to do and it is incumbent upon ASRM to be like, there was a panel, that was all about like, how donor conceived people are feeling about donor conception and they used AI to sift through all like, all of YouTube to gather donor conceived opinions and I'm like, why didn't you just get donor conceived people to come talk?

Kendall and Corey: Exactly. Yeah.

Laura High: That's really fucking weird. And that should have been ASRM coming and going, no, you're gonna get donor conceived people, like, invite donor conceived people onto that goddamn panel. Um, there was a panel, I believe, about early disclosure. A donor conceived person should have been on that one. A few donor conceived people should have been on it. There should have been a donor conceived person who did get early disclosure. And there should have been a donor conceived person who got late disclosure to talk about the experiences of both. And the fact that ASRM is not putting its foot down and ensuring that our voices are heard is ridiculous. And I always say, it is not upon you to give us, to grant us a seat at the table. We are the table, you cannot have a conversation about us without us. It is absolutely unethical, and you should be actively making room, and you should be doing that work, and they are just actively not. Um, so we protested them. To basically go full circle back to what you initially asked was I was directly told by an industry professional who was at ASRM they were like, just like letting you know, the industry, like people at the convention really saw the protest as like kind of a negative.

Kendall and Corey: Wow.

Laura High: And I was like, Bitch, it's a fucking protest! Yes! Yeah!

Kendall and Corey: it's in the

Laura High: That means I did my job! And I was like, and she said this as a way, like, and she was trying to tell me that, like, I'm doing advocacy wrong, and she's telling me, like, you need to do advocacy better in a way that's, like, more, like, industry palatable, and I'm like,

Kendall and Corey: I'm not here to

Laura High: And I'm just sitting there going like, Ma'am, in the history of protests, when has the person ever being protested been like, Oh my god, I love this! I love the aesthetic! Keep them outside! This looks great! Oh my god, send them Gatorade! Like, are you on, ma'am? like, it

Kendall and Corey: Wow.

Laura High: me to be like, I get it, you don't like us, but do you hear

Kendall and Corey: Exactly.

Laura High: Like, this is delusional.

Kendall and Corey: You should have said, Oh, you're right. I'll leave right now.

Laura High: Like, oh god, I'm so sorry, were we a bother? I am so sorry. You guys think this is a negative? I thought we were just

Kendall and Corey: Yeah, exactly.

Laura High: Ugh, my god. yeah, it really just was this like, lady. Give me a fucking break. So I also get a lot of that as well, and we get a lot of, a lot of the reactions we get is like, oh, that's just angry DCP. DCP means Donor Conceived People, and that's a very just gaslighting dismissive term we get a lot like, oh, you're just angry. And it's like, yeah, I'm angry, that's actually the very proper emotion when we find out our mothers were... sexually assaulted by these doctors, and legally there's nothing we can do, and you guys aren't doing shit. Yeah, actually anger is 100 percent the appropriate emotion. The fact that I find out that, like, I'm one of a hundred donor conceived siblings, and all of my siblings are sick as hell because there was a falsified medical history. Yeah, I'm fucking angry. Or, I've been in the hospital, or as one donor conceived person I know, had, um, 13 surgeries by the time they were 15 years old, because of a falsified medical history. And in her words, she was medically tortured. Yeah, anger is the proper emotion. And this is what I always say, It's like, I'm sorry that like, we're not, you know, more consumable, we're not sweet, and we're just going like, Oh my god, thank you so much for letting us die. Thank you so much, we really appreciate this opportunity to be killed by you. Thank you. I'm sorry that we're not nicer about it, but anger is the right term and the fact that the industry has continually treated us like mousepads and not like sentient human beings, has got to stop. It's got to stop. And it's not just donor conceived people. The fact that donors are commodified as well. The fact that recipient parents are lied to, the amount of recipient parents I have spoken to, and it's so heartbreaking to hear. Like I, you know, they have three four year olds and they're like, oh my god, and they're sort of like realizing what happened and they're going like our kid is sick, they have so many problems and like we had no idea. We had no idea what was going on They're like I feel horrible and awful. I don't know what to do and It's just this you can hear that just pain in their voice And then when you talk to recipient parents who lost their donor conceived child because of just the negligence of the fertility industry, it's like, you just, you just don't forget those conversations and you hear the pain and the mourning in their voice, and they know it didn't have to be this way,this could have so easily been avoided.

Kendall and Corey: So, why isn't there more legislation?

Laura High: Um, I think a lot of it is, donor conception education is so brand new. We're just starting, and I think a lot of it just has to be that we're just telling people why they should care. But there is some legislation on the table right now, like right now we're trying to get HR 451 passed, which is the federal fertility fraud legislation, which would criminalize a doctor switching out the chosen donor gametes for their own or any others that they feel like. So that is one and you can call your local legislature now and say, like, please support HR 451. Um, the bill is bipartisan, it's got like a ton of co sponsors, it's just stuck in the Judiciary Committee right now, and we need it to get a date on the calendar to vote on. So that's one. We also have the Donor Conceived Persons Protection Act trying to get passed in New York State. This would require clinics and cryobanks to verify the medical information that a donor hands in. So again, groundbreaking. So, if you live in New York State or you have family or friends in New York State, tell them to call your local legislature and be like, we desperately need to get the Donor Conceived Persons Protection Act passed. There are more states who are in process of also passing their own fertility fraud legislation as we wait for the federal fertility fraud legislation. Those states, it's gonna become a little bit more public soon, so I'm gonna wait for those stories to come out, but I will say, just be on the lookout, more stories are coming out. Yeah, there is legislation that is moving and grooving and if you want to find out more ways to support legislation as it unfolds, you can follow the United States Donor Conceived Council, USDCC, on Instagram. It is a group of donor conceived people that literally write regulations and literally negotiate with the industry. If you're particularly interested in fertility fraud legislation, you can follow Eve Wiley on Instagram, she is the one who spearheaded the fertility fraud legislation. You can also follow Jacoba Ballard, who was like the head narrator for the documentary, Our Father, which was about Dr. Klein on Netflix, who switched out the chosen sperm for his own in now over a hundred patients. So, there is legislation coming, but I think right now the way that we get legislation happening is we need to get more donor conceived stories out there. We need recipient parents, donors like Dylan, and donor conceived people, actively coming forward and telling their story, and showing, this is what happened to me, this was the lies that we were told. Because these stories are so, horrific, it actually doesn't take much to get these legislatures to really start to listen. I mean, fertility fraud is comically awful, and the fact that doctors can actively get away with fertility fraud because the laws are just not tight enough is just, it's absurd. Because this should be an easy slam dunk, these doctors should go to fucking jail immediately for doing that. There is legislation, and it is slowly coming and trickling out, and it's coming out faster and faster as more donor conceived people are finding their voice and speaking their truth. And that was a thing that actually really happened at the protest, which was really magical to see was there were donor conceived people supporting each other and coming forward for the very first time in a very public way, talking about what happened to them.

Kendall and Corey: Well thank you for sharing those resources because as you said, the more of the conversation explodes, then the more things are going to start to change.

Laura High: Absolutely, and I want to make clear to every parent listening, or every intended parent the conversation explodes, then the more things are going to start to change. I think donor conception is, in a perfect ethical world, a wonderful way to start a family. It's a great resource if you need fertility,if you're having infertility problems, if you need assistance with family building, I want you to have your family. I want that for you. But I want it to be done in a way that is safe and ethical for all parties involved, especially the donor conceived person. So I always want to make that really clear, that none of the advocates that I work with are trying to stop donor conception. We're just literally trying to make it safe and ethical for you and your child.

Kendall and Corey: Right. And I think what we're talking about is literally pennies on the dollar to do things the right way. It's just, again, with so many industries, the greed is, it's greed. The greed is, there. It's like, oh, I couldn't possibly give up a nickel. You know? Right.

Laura High: Well, and a great way to explain, so this is a multi billion dollar industry and a great way to explain it is like, let's use Dylan's story. So Dylan is a donor who donated at Zytex and he donated for multiple years and he got paid a hundred, hundred and fifty dollars per donation. And he, I believe he, he made like 20, 000 ish dollars. We talked about it like on my podcast, but it was about 20, 000 ish dollars. And now, one of the things to remember though is, he got paid per donation. So every time he would come in and make a deposit. Now, when you are a sperm donor though, one deposit does not equate to one sellable vial. They take that one deposit and they split it up into multiple sellable vials. It might be as little as three, it might be as big as nineteen. Nineteen is the most we've ever heard of. And Dylan's vials went from 1, 000 to 2, 000 each per vial. So, Dylan and I did the math together on like, how much he donated per week. And we sort of, we tried to like, lowball it and be like, let's say they only broke it up into four vials. And we, we played it very conservatively. But like, we did the math. The cryobank allegedly made... A million dollars off of just Dylan.

Kendall and Corey: Right, Right, mm-Hmm.

Laura High: Just off of Dylan alone. A million dollars. And that's just off of the vials. Most clinics and cryobanks charge extra if you want a full medical history, that was not verified, you have to pay extra for that. If you want a picture of the donor, you pay extra. You want to see their handwriting, hear their voice. You're going to pay extra. Now, what happens if you want to have siblings? Okay, then you have to buy more vials. Now you have to pay for storage at the cryo bank. So you're paying for, storage fees for all that sperm. They nickel and dime these recipient parents. So many recipient parents end up having to take a second mortgage in order to pay for this. So you're right, it's an obscene amount of money. So the fact that like, Dylan made about 20, 000 and this cryobank allegedly made a million dollars off of just him and they have way more donors than that

Kendall and Corey: Right.

Laura High: is absurd. And of course these cryobanks and clinics have overhead. They absolutely have overhead. Give me a f ing break. Give me an absolute break. That is absurd. and at a certain point, it's like, we have to keep things ethical. Like, I'm so sorry, doctors, you're not gonna be able to buy that second yacht.

Kendall and Corey: Right.

Laura High: We have to make sure the sibling pod is under 20. So sorry.

Kendall and Corey: Which is still, still such a moneymaker, even with the Colorado regulation, you know, if you have 25 family possibilities, you know, for a single donor. That alone,

Laura High: That still could be 50 kids.

Kendall and Corey: Exactly, And that alone is still astronomical as far as what the cryobank is making. So just bizarre to me that we, you know, we just have, to your point, we have to educate the general population to say, you know, a, this is what these companies are making, um, B,

Laura High: hmm.

Kendall and Corey: you know. It's unethical across the board.

Laura High: I just may be, and I still try and stay very optimistic genuinely want what's best for their kids. They really, really do. And I really just would encourage intended recipient parents to be like, I know you want your kid to be healthy. I know you want your kid to be safe. I know you want your kid to be happy. So help us fight for these regulations now because before you get pregnant is when you have the most power in this industry. Start demanding change now because they care about your pocketbook. That's what they care about. They want your money. So you have to wield that power now. Because once you get pregnant, they don't give a fucking shit. They don't care. And they've made that very clear. There are a lot of recipient parents who I've spoken to who are like, my heart has broken, I thought this place cared about me. Apparently not. And you have to wield that power now. So, what I would do is like, again, little things that you can do that can make a big difference. I would call your clinic and cryobank and ask them, have you supported HR 451? Have you supported the fertility fraud legislation? And here's the thing, I can tell you right now, not a single clinic or cryo bank has support. Okay. Only one bank has supported the fertility fraud legislation and that's Fairfax. That's the only bank that has now Fairfax still has a lot of accountability they need to take in terms of like crap they've done, but I will give it to them there. They're the only bank that has actively supported the fertility fraud legislation. So with that, you go to every single other bank, every single other clinic and go, I will not use you until you publicly support the fertility fraud legislation. Use it. Like, be like, you need to send in a letter, and then I would use you. Or, ask them, like, do you openly support a sibling cap? Ask them saying, like, what are you doing to support donor conceived people? Like, actively, actively, wield that. And be very curt, and very just like, no, then I will not use you. I only support, clinics and cryobanks that are, actively supporting donor conceived people.

Kendall and Corey: Well, and you don't have to necessarily be somebody who's looking to have a child through a sperm bank to do that, you can call and ask these questions. Anybody can just call and ask these questions.

Laura High: you can call and ask questions. Anybody can do that. Um, but yeah, it's there, but yeah, that, but those are ways that you can actively start doing some small changes that actually make a big impact. Um, because the more that we actively demand the industry to change, the more they will, because again, they care about money and they're going to be like, okay, how do we make more money? Oh shit. We got to do all this other crap. All right. That's the only way then. and that's how we've been able to like get certain things I would say a little bit more normalized within the industry.

Kendall and Corey: Yes, absolutely. And I want to be respectful of your time, but Kendall, remind me, what are the dates you're going to be in New York City? Oh, the 10th through the 15th, I think of December. Do you

Laura High: Oh, fabulous!

Kendall and Corey: performing any of those, uh, nights?

Laura High: 10th through the 15th. Hold on, I'm going to check right, right now. second.

Kendall and Corey: Yeah, Kendall's actually, traveling to New York City with his half sister, who we found, um... Yeah, which we, we... we've known each other for six years, but, you know, it's... it's rare for us to get to go places together, so... Yeah, it'll be their first vacation together.

Laura High: get to go places together. Yeah, it'll be their first vacation together. Um, and I post all of my shows on my Instagram at laurahigh5. Also, everything is on my website, www. laurahigh5. com. I will also, Kendall, I will absolutely message you and be like, Hey, here's some shows that I just got for. Um, so I can also absolutely tell you, tell you then. Um, because I usually get like my, uh, I usually get my show dates for that month. Usually like the 1st of December is when like I'll get my full schedule from the clubs. So, um, I would say 1st of december, I'll actually know.

Kendall and Corey: Cool. Awesome. Awesome. Well, we really, really appreciate what you're doing because, you know, we were talking about very serious subject matter here, but I feel like humor has a place in every conversation. You know, I think it makes, um, more palatable for people, it breaks the ice a little bit and, you know, so thank you for what you're doing and, you know. keep on wearing that sperm costume. Um,

Laura High: ..Well, thank you for listening. It really makes a big difference, the fact that people are willing to just listen and hear us out, um, and go like, yeah, that is fucked up, we can change it. There are so many complicated problems in this world, this one's really, we can fix this one, we really can. This is one we can do. And it will make a huge impact on so many different communities in such a positive way. And I genuinely believe in, I'm still trying to stay optimistic and believe in the goodness of people and, and be like, I know that the majority of intended recipient parents genuinely want what's best.

Kendall and Corey: Absolutely. Absolutely. And hopefully there's definitely some crossover for our different audiences because we talk about surrogacy, we talk about donor conception, we talk about adoption and I'm sure that there are people are tuning in because they are interested in that specific issue, but really, this is just a big community, we're all in this community together, you know, and

Laura High: Yeah.

Kendall and Corey: Yeah.

Laura High: No, we're all in this together, and it all feeds into one another, like the whole baby business, whether it is surrogacy or adoption or anything, it all plays in and it all feeds off of each other, and I do believe that we are on the path togetting reproductive help into a place that is much more ethical for all parties involved. I do believe that we are entering a phase where we're starting to go down that right path, as it should be, um, and that's incredible, and I know it's going to be, in 10, 15, 20 years, we're going to be in a completely different place and it is because I do think that we're all working together and realizing how much we all have in common within that Venn diagram, especially between donor conceived people and adoptees. There's so many similarities and empathy that we share. Like, I have felt like some of the most incredible support from, like, my fellow adoptee advocates, um, have been, like, some of our most fiercest supporters because there's just so much that we understand about each other. Even if we don't have, like, exact similar experiences, there's just, like, I get you, boo.

Kendall and Corey: Right. Right. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, again, thank you so much for what you're doing and thank you for, you know, sharing your story on the podcast.

Laura High: Thank yoforr, having me and have a delightful day.

Kendall and Corey: Thank you. You too. If you could hang on just a second while we'll, um, Kendall's going to stop the recording and then.

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